Topic: Rob Macklem's ponderings on Louie Simmons and stuff

[patrick ward]

It seems that everyone is also forgetting one VERY important point about Louies guys and the application of his training methods...

THEY COMPETE IN A FEDERATION THAT DOES NOT DRUG TEST.

Everyone who reads LS stuff has to realize that they get results not only through their training methods, but also through pharmeceuticals. That has never been hidden. How can drug free athletes recover on a program made for guys on the gas?

Most of his gusy look like bloated and puffy fish that are about to explode. So if Louie did train olympic lifters, he'd have to remember that it is a drug free sport first and foremost.

yea, olympic lifters never juice.  :wink:

[Damon Davis]

I'm not trying to start a discussion on doping, I just think when a coach looks at another training plan they need to take all things into consideration regarding the results of those who use the program get. We are disscussing Louie Simmons and his training program and this is one aspect to consider.


 
 

yea, olympic lifters never juice.  

At least Oly lifters compete in a federation that makes an attempt to keep things clean.

[Patrick Dupont]

Wow. I just read that. This started like a hell of a debate on technical differences and unapplicable principle transfers. That's too bad it didn't get past Pendlay's answer (why every conversation on such subjects must inexorably end up in the swamp of doping considerations is beyond me. This is a morbid obsession we must put an end to, one day. It's too pathetic.).

Come awake, Thrrread... from sleep arise! 

[Andy Dick]

I think Don had a very good point in his opening statement about getting kids to start lifting (or even olympic lifting) at a younger age.  I think this is something that does not happen often here in the US.  1. It is hard to get kids interested in a sport that does not make you rich.  Who hears anything about olympic lifting, but who hears everything about basketball and football.  I am training a kid right now that plays basketball.  I have been teaching him the power versions of the snatch and clean.  The kid loves doing them and loves the increases in them and is coming along in the lifts pretty quickly.  He has even started showing an interest in olympic lifting he wants to watch me compete and wants to watch the olympic competitions.  But when it comes to suggesting getting him compete its always "na basketball comes first," "or I'll lift to get stronger and improve my verticle and game but I don't want to compete."

2. Also, I know location is a factor so this varies some, but to get kids lifting or even exposure to lifting in general at a young age is hard.  I am a strength coach at the high school level.  When I started there most of the kids knew nothing about olympic lifts.  Those that did know something only knew what a power clean was and none of them know how to correctly do a power clean.  95% of the freshmen who step into the weight room know nothing about lifting weights at all (but they know how to play basketball and football, ps I have nothing against these sports by the way).  These kids think they dont need to lift weight or don't want to.  Some think they are already good at a sport so why do they need to lift.  I know this has to start sooner and I am working on changing that but I think things need to help getting interest back to the sport.

HA! that being said I know it has little to do with the topic but I thought I would throw it out there.

On topic I think when you look at it just because olympic lifting helps their guys with powerlifting does not necessarily mean that powerlifting will help guys olympic lifting.  I think a great deal of power production during lifts can help any lifting; but to do variations in form as louie does may not always be helpful to an olympic lifter.  Also, on that note I knew a strength coach who was all about posterior chain work that he claimed he got from louie.  He was always touting it and emphasizing it (which dont get me wrong it is needed for muscle balance and sports especially to a degree) but to the degree of what this coach was saying which was a lot it seemed like?  I dont know much about what louie does, it but I knew another coach who simply told me posterior work is good and should be included but only to an extent, we are anterior beings we do everything in the front and use these musles a lot so why not keep the emphasis on training on the anterior muscles.  Hope this gets things going patrick

[Andy Dick]

Oh ps I do also know there was a time when I tried to integrate some of louie's squat ideas into oly lifting and I got quickly disuaded by many oly lifters on the basis of specificity

[Patrick Dupont]

To put it as simple as I can (I hope I don’t sound harsh or condescending, because I properly A-D-M-I-R-E Bolton’s, Coan’s or Frank’s incredible feats of strength and I practice PL myself with highest enjoyment) :

Good weightlifters who have done good in powerlifting events are many : Ernie Pickett, Gary Taylor, Michel Broillet… the list is long. I never heard of a powerlifter who's done good in Olympic events.

There must be a reason ?


In my opinion (but maybe it ain’t worth sh..), weights over 110% of your S or CJ only contribute to distort the pattern. Deadlifting 270 didn’t help me put one gram more on my CJ and may well have impaired my progress.

Kids are very media-dependent and under influence, which is natural. And the greedy media are only interested in games and stadiums overcrowded with potential customers (panem et circenses=MONEY), not so much in individual sports.

That’s how kids now confuse fame with respect and some of them would better become (in)famous than « only » respected by a happy few elite of peers.