Topic: The Weightlifter's Macronutrient Ratios

[Rob Macklem]

Rob, in a somehow similar perspective, what do you think of Batcheldor’s « Protein-Pulse Eating Plan »?

Never heard of it, but looked it up. Interesting. I'm not sure how you extrapolate these studies of untrained old and young women to athletes ie weightlifters who put rather extreme demands on muscle metabolism. Also for 2 wks before the study all the women were given a low amount of protein, and then somewhat protein loaded. I would say this is tantamount to CHO loading.
We are all individuals with wildly varying requirements for nutritition, read Biochemical Individuality by Roger Williams(the biochemist who discovered Pantothenic acid) this book is a real eye opener. +

Rob
B.Sc.(Pharm) but certainly no expert in nutrition

[Patrick Dupont]

Never heard of it, but looked it up. Interesting. I'm not sure how you extrapolate these studies of untrained old and young women to athletes ie weightlifters who put rather extreme demands on muscle metabolism. Also for 2 wks before the study all the women were given a low amount of protein, and then somewhat protein loaded. I would say this is tantamount to CHO loading.

Basically, Baltcheldor’s concept is founded on chronobiology and a certain number of theories including this one : protein are best absorbed in the morning (for example). Which I find interesting, but far from being "proved". And I completely agree with you concerning far-fetched extrapolations from very specific studies. At least old people are human beings and not birds, cats or rats.

We are all individuals with wildly varying requirements for nutritition, read Biochemical Individuality by Roger Williams(the biochemist who discovered Pantothenic acid) this book is a real eye opener. +

Thank you for the reference. I just ordered the book you mentioned.

B.Sc.(Pharm) but certainly no expert in nutrition

Requires far more knowledge than can display 90% of our self-styled « sports nutrionists » (1) whose ignorance is confounding. Even RD’s often talk nonsense when it comes to weightlifting. That’s why I tought such a poll like this one could be of interest to us all…

(1) With the sole exception of the CISSNs, who if I remember correctly must be awarded a M.Sc. by a an official university and the CSCS by the NSCA to register as candidates in a proctored examination. And the ISSN is a non-profit organization, which says all.

[Patrick Dupont]

I... typed... Metabolic Typing and went for information on the net.

The major proponent of Metabolic Typing appears to be a guy by the name of Kelly Baggett.

What I found the most interesting is his conclusion to an article entitled... er... Metabolic Typing (inventive, innit? ): although MT must be taken into account, this - according to KB himself - doesn't put into question the validity of general recommandation guidelines for a majority of athletes/people:

"So, based on that information, what is your ideal diet? Protein recommendations need not vary that significantly between diets. An athlete needs 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight, which generally means that about 40% of your calories are going to come from protein. Most of the adjustments revolve around manipulating fat and carb consumption.

If you're an in-efficient metabolic type, you probably have better carbohydrate tolerance, aren't terribly efficient at oxidizing fats, thus you'll probably do well on a diet that is about 40 percent protein, 40-45 percent carbs and 15-20 percent fat. If you're an efficient metabolic type, you're probably carb intolerant, oxidize fats well, thus a diet lower in carbs and higher in fat is probably a better choice. A good starting point might be 40 percent protein, 20-30 percent carbs and 30-40 percent fat. "

Your opinion?

[Matt Erdman]

I would say that is pretty good. Think about how important protein synthesis is to a weightlifter. Maybe a lifter can get away with 15-20% protein intake, but why risk reduced recovery and adaptations. That is partly why I voted for 1/3 across the board. This will ensure ample protein intake, and also either metabolic type will have good energy levels and reduce the risk of gain excessive body fat (more than 10% in my book). From there it can be changed to suit a persons metabolic type. For instance a carb-type would change to something like 30%P, 50%C, and 20%F. He should experience better workouts, better recovery, and increased or maintained leaness. A fat-type (often called protein-type) would switch to 40%P, 20%C, and 40%F to experience the same results.

I should add that a carb-type would need less protein intake because carbs are protein sparing, meaning that there will be less protein (muscle) breakdown and somewhat increased protein synthesis. A good reason why the carb intake for a protein-type would be based around the workouts rather than distributed during the day.

[Patrick Dupont]

This makes so much sense to me that it's even hard for me to think otherwise: for example, I thought that Likomitrou had her numbers all mixed up at first and that her equation in fact comprised 40% of protein. But it wasn't the case.

Now, Rob's got a very valid point when he remembers us of Dr.Vorobyov (MD), Olympic and World champ and UdSSR Olympic team coach... But, as you say, 15-20% of P seems pretty low, although, of course, carbs (and fats) have anabolic (anabolism is an endergonic reaction which requires energy in large amounts) and anticatabolic effect (no gluconeogenesis necessary to match energy needs).

But it has all become pretty tricky lastly when athletes asked me about erratic recommendations like 40%Fat-40%Carbs-20%Prot. and even... 80% C -10% F-10% P (yes!)

So I wondered what was the consensus - or whether there was any? - in the weightlifting community.
I thought I would rather be satisfied with a statistical compromise and posted the poll you voted in. But nothing is simple. Of that, I am certain.

Reminds me of the national team coach and French recordman in the press, Marcel Paterni, when he heard someone tell one of his athletes he should "keep it simple" - "Definition of simple?" Paterni interrupted - Er... what? - What do call simple, I ask. - Well... - So, STFU...      ... Ok:

[Andy Dick]

An athlete needs 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of bodyweight, which generally means that about 40% of your calories are going to come from protein. Most of the adjustments revolve around manipulating fat and carb consumption.

I thought it was supposed to be 1 to 1.5 grams per kg bodyweight not per pound?

[Patrick Dupont]

1.
WOW! Thank you, Andy!! You're absolutely right. I must be blind, or something: I hadn't seen that.
Fact is that all reputable authorities recommend 1-2 grams of protein/KG of BW to the strength athlete:
-The NSCA;
-The ISSA;
-The ISSN;
-Dr Peter Konopka (MD, the German guru of sports nutrition);
-Pr Peter Lemon;
-Dr Gilbert Peres (MD, the director of the French board of sports nutritionists*);
etc. etc. etc. etc.

*MD's only.

2.
Here is a very interesting reference about "protein types" recommended by Matt:
http://www.mercola.com/proteintype/index.htm

3.
Just read what I wrote before about fats being "anabolic". That was pretty unclear. In fact they play an anticatabolic role by slowing digestion and absorption down. Furthermore, as everyone knows, O3 help with nervous recovery and O9 help synthesize more testosterone, which is good for us amateur or pro weightlifters. Whether there are types who can metabolize fat better than carbs is still in debate, but what is for sure is that a strength athlete develops an ability to use fat more efficiently for testosterone synthesis, for example. Having that said, on the other hand we don't use the oxidative (aerobic) system that much, if at all, and strength sports are not particularly conceived to "burn fat".