Topic: Weightlifting progress - natural or not?

[7thLifter]

I came upon a weightlifter who claims to be all natural, his results so far are thus:

- roughly 3 years of training, 3,5 years tops, started at age 15, now around 18 years of age
- started with about 72-73 kg of body weight, increased it to 88kg over the course of his training
- best snatch I've seen him do is 152,5kg, best C&J is 190kg so far, with his clean at almost 200kg
- 262,5kg back squat, ATG
- his height is 178 centimeters (I stumbled upon this info after reading some comments)
- his training consists of only the olympic lifts, back squat, and he deadlifts sometimes, though rarely, AND he rarely does he front squat, or so he claims

As said before, he says he's all natural.

Now, I'm NOT here to ARGUE whether he is natural or not, I'm just here for opinions from more experienced weightlifters. Do you believe this kind of progress is possible in 3,5 years from someone who weighs 88kg, and was not involved in a lot of sports before that? (also consider he started at 72kg of body weight).

What's your opinion?

[movmasty]

Yes is possible, but we are at the upper limit of possible.

These are the junior records for the 94kg class

Snatch 185 kg Khadzhimurat Akkayev Russia 29 May 2004 European Junior Championships Minsk, Belarus 19 years, 67 days Clean & Jerk 232 kg Szymon Kołecki Poland 29 April 2000 European Championships Sofia, Bulgaria 18 years, 212 days Total 412 kg Szymon Kołecki Poland 29 April 2000 European Championships Sofia, Bulgaria 18 years, 212 days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Junior_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting

As we can see a 18 and half did 232kg of c&j, but likely he started well before 15yrs

[7thLifter]

I know there are many young champions out there, but who can guarantee us that those people are not taking drugs? All these numbers are fine and well, but they don't prove there are no drugs involved.

Again, not trying to point fingers at anyone or argue about it, just stating the obvious. It is common knowledge that the body can be cleansed from drugs, and that a drug test that says a lifter is clean can't be trusted anyway.

In the case of this particular weightlifter, he has only trained for a maximum of 3,5 years, and achieved these results.

[Arturo Gómez]

I saw great progress absolutely natural. i saw too, that great progress is not everytimes possible, because work study or familiar problems.
But a professional athltete, with only make weightlifting, is natural progress to fantastic limites, in special if was selected with good health and biomechanical conditions.


In the other hand, nobody can warrant anything for individually any person. So, the sport takes the same that criminal principle: "everybody is innocent until proof in contrary".


In the theatre piece "You may be a murderer" they play with the idea that is imposible proof that "you are not a murderer"

[7thLifter]

True, I guess. I made great progress naturally as well for a while, especially with my squat, so I know from personal experience that such progress is not impossible with static strength exercises, but with the snatch and clean and jerk, that's another matter. Those disciplines are not that easy to progress with, especially the snatch.

Thanks for the reply.

[movmasty]

I know there are many young champions out there, but who can guarantee us that those people are not taking drugs? All these numbers are fine and well, but they don't prove there are no drugs involved.

Again, not trying to point fingers at anyone or argue about it, just stating the obvious. It is common knowledge that the body can be cleansed from drugs, and that a drug test that says a lifter is clean can't be trusted anyway.

In the case of this particular weightlifter, he has only trained for a maximum of 3,5 years, and achieved these results.

Today tests can reveal drugs taken 3 months earlyer, but the true efficacy is in the random controls, an athlete doesnt know when he could be tested.

It is true that an amateur off the olympic federations can take drugs, we was just talking about if that was possible or not without drugs, it is.

[Andy Dick]

Yes is possible, but we are at the upper limit of possible.

These are the junior records for the 94kg class

Snatch   185 kg Khadzhimurat Akkayev Russia 29 May 2004 European Junior Championships Minsk, Belarus 19 years, 67 days Clean & Jerk   232 kg Szymon Kołecki Poland 29 April 2000 European Championships Sofia, Bulgaria 18 years, 212 days Total   412 kg Szymon Kołecki Poland 29 April 2000 European Championships Sofia, Bulgaria 18 years, 212 days

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Junior_world_records_in_Olympic_weightlifting

As we can see a 18 and half did 232kg of c&j, but likely he started well before 15yrs

 
 
I thought I read somewhere one chat Kolecki has admitted to using performance enhancing drugs once in the past. I could be wrong though

[7thLifter]

I know there are many young champions out there, but who can guarantee us that those people are not taking drugs? All these numbers are fine and well, but they don't prove there are no drugs involved.

Again, not trying to point fingers at anyone or argue about it, just stating the obvious. It is common knowledge that the body can be cleansed from drugs, and that a drug test that says a lifter is clean can't be trusted anyway.

In the case of this particular weightlifter, he has only trained for a maximum of 3,5 years, and achieved these results.

Today tests can reveal drugs taken 3 months earlyer, but the true efficacy is in the random controls, an athlete doesnt know when he could be tested.

It is true that an amateur off the olympic federations can take drugs, we was just talking about if that was possible or not without drugs, it is.

I know random drug tests are most efficient.

But I think we're going off topic with this :)

My real question is basically this - is it possible to snatch 152kg/clean almost 200kg/clean and jerk 190kg by training 100% natural in 3,5 years, considering his weight started somewhere around 70kg and increased to around 88 during that period. I find this really hard to believe. I'm just trying to get some insight from as many experienced people as I can. I talked to a few people who have experience in weightlifting, and have competed quite a bit as well, they all say it's not possible.

just trying to get as many opinions as I can, see what others think.