Topic: Why I Believe in the Naturalistic or Anarchistic Method of Weightlifting

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Absolutely. In no way is anything I am saying an attack on any particular coach or coaches, though it is an attack on arrogant coaches that believe they are going to be the great planner, are going to come up with the perfect plan- and some do exist. Hell, at one time, I was very proud of my programming ability. But no matter how good a coach is at feeling the vibes of the lifter, the lifter will always be in a better position to know whats going on. Absolutely they will make mistakes. Sometimes the coach or others may give them good advice they reject. They will learn from their mistakes, if they are great. If not, they won't be great anyway. And, if they aren't having fun, they are doomed. I think many great coaches in the country show many of these tendencies I am describing. John Thrush in particular has a very laid back approach. Even at the jr squad camps where we were under "scientific" [positivist] study, lifters were allowed to break the rules. I of course can tell many great stories, with Vernon Patao coming to mind right off the bat. The "Bulgarian" approach is pretty much just a less focused and clear expression of this idea, in my opinion.

[Simon Klimesh]

Chris, what was that story about Patao cleaning a weight cold?

[Arturo Gómez]

In some coordinates, coache´s objectives is to present a qualified team in a certain data. They have economical and human resources. They select the integrants of that team according they response to his system.
In other coordinates, the athletes select their coaches according they gave opportunity of a great progress, not for a fixed data but sustentable. Atheltes are interested in his own progress, not in medias.
So, I don´t like extrapolate one approach to the other.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Vernon and I once had a sort of contest to see who could clean more "cold" after a meet, I believe after drug testing. I believe I did 140@56 and he did 150@60. Long time ago...

[Matt Erdman]

Absolutely. In no way is anything I am saying an attack on any particular coach or coaches, though it is an attack on arrogant coaches that believe they are going to be the great planner, are going to come up with the perfect plan- and some do exist. Hell, at one time, I was very proud of my programming ability. But no matter how good a coach is at feeling the vibes of the lifter, the lifter will always be in a better position to know whats going on. Absolutely they will make mistakes. Sometimes the coach or others may give them good advice they reject. They will learn from their mistakes, if they are great. If not, they won't be great anyway. And, if they aren't having fun, they are doomed. I think many great coaches in the country show many of these tendencies I am describing. John Thrush in particular has a very laid back approach. Even at the jr squad camps where we were under "scientific" [positivist] study, lifters were allowed to break the rules. I of course can tell many great stories, with Vernon Patao coming to mind right off the bat. The "Bulgarian" approach is pretty much just a less focused and clear expression of this idea, in my opinion.

I will admit that i don't know the popular or various forms of "anarchy" may be available. I just envision a free-for-all. Throw a bunch of lifters and barbells into a gym and shake it up!  I guess overall we have common ground. I don't know that I buy into the physical = mental thing. I guess if you limit the mental aspect to pure determination, then it makes sense.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Anarchy in weightlifting training isn't all that different from anarchy in picking your clothes every day, except in your mind ;)

[Simon Klimesh]

Absolutely. In no way is anything I am saying an attack on any particular coach or coaches, though it is an attack on arrogant coaches that believe they are going to be the great planner, are going to come up with the perfect plan- and some do exist. Hell, at one time, I was very proud of my programming ability. But no matter how good a coach is at feeling the vibes of the lifter, the lifter will always be in a better position to know whats going on. Absolutely they will make mistakes. Sometimes the coach or others may give them good advice they reject. They will learn from their mistakes, if they are great. If not, they won't be great anyway. And, if they aren't having fun, they are doomed. I think many great coaches in the country show many of these tendencies I am describing. John Thrush in particular has a very laid back approach. Even at the jr squad camps where we were under "scientific" [positivist] study, lifters were allowed to break the rules. I of course can tell many great stories, with Vernon Patao coming to mind right off the bat. The "Bulgarian" approach is pretty much just a less focused and clear expression of this idea, in my opinion.

How is the "Bulgarian" approach anarchy? They did snatch,clean and jerk, and squat. To me the "soviet" method is much more anarchy with the keep your body guessing doing every exercise under the sun method. When I trained under a Chinese coach I thought it was pure madness doing every exercise except the competition snatch and clean and jerk. I mean sure I had beach boy muscles and looked stronger, but the anarchy/diverting from the competition lifts wasn't helping. Doing the same lifts daily seems much more stable to me and less like anarchy.

[ViKtoricus]

Champions break the rules, so there is little point in making them in the first place unless the athlete just desires them.

Exactly right.

"Experts" back in the days thought Abadjhiev was crazy and look where he has gotten.