Topic: To those who don't like the "Bulgarian" approach, why?

[Mike Frost]

From my view, this entire post above is proof that drug testing is and will always be a failure. If the goal is to ensure a level playing field and peaceful competition, drug testing cannot ever achieve it. It only raises endless suspicions and bitterness, while punishing the innocent and rapidly invading privacy rights to a degree that is beyond the pale.

Yes I agree drug testing is a failure. And when I see whole countries banned because a couple lifters tested positive, that is a croc, as the individual should be dealt with not a whole country and culture. I agree with you(lol helps I'm an anarcho-capitalist which I suspect you are aswell)

To Vik.....LOL after what Chris just said, in short if testing weren't a joke Bulgaria would most likely not have one a singal medal LOL!!! So your argument is straw-man at best. Also look up "history of olympic weightlifting results" from 1896-2008(my source is wikipedia) the Bulgarians aren't even top 3 LOL, countries close to their size have had incredible results developing their own styles. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Soviets were the ones who tested BS vs FS and came to the conclusion that the BS was superior in carry-over. Which imo is obviously the case....FS carries to clean....BS carries to clean, jerk, and snatch. Plus if the Butcher was correct in saying, one could perform only 2 classical lifts and thats it.....don't you think with athletes like Naim, Krastev ect. that they could have gotten down to 2 exercises. If Naim can't then NOBODY CAN!!! The amount of volume you'd have to do would be so immense(ex. cleaning and snatching hundreads of reps daily to gain suffiecient squat/pull strength)....that....you'd have to be on steroids, because no diet plan, sleep, heat treatment would "weather that sh$t storm" LOL!!

I'm not trying to put you down Vik, but I feel your gravely misguided and naive.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Yes, I could roughly be labeled an "anarcho-capitalist", but I still think you are allowing your emotions to carry away with you here. We don't know that Bulgarian athletes use(d) more steroids than say the USSR or China does now. Drug testing tells us nothing about anything obviously and is completely corrupt. I believe my predictions regarding the doping fines have now been proven correct, for example, and the EWF or somebody has found massive amounts of money unaccounted for, though I haven't seen much news. Its all a big scam, while those who profit laugh their asses off at athletes pulling down their pants in front of strangers, detailing their every movement to a tracking agency, and handing over their pee for scrutiny by a some unknown person, long down a chain of unknown people. Its absolutely bizarre actually. They are even storing urine now for use in the future, an entire industry stimulated (wonder who is in on that one?)!

[Mike Frost]

Thats a whole other argument about drug testing, I agree its so corrupt and pay-offs are the norm. Note I never said they do more then the Chinese or Russians, simply that their levels of drug intake was so high, men to which I personally trust have shown me pics standing side by side and recounted situations at international meets where the Bulgarians were "disturbing" in their apperance...and I'm not talking size 

What I communicated was a lesson for Vik, to stay on the healthy path, sorry if I came off as singling out the Bulgarians(I have no quarrell with these ppl) but given their the topic at hand I thought I'd chime in and point some flaws out. And to Vik, this doesn't mean you can't train heavy daily, just note that imo the most corrupt country in weightlifting might be the Bulgarians, and to Chris I completely agree I don't know Sh%t, because in a court of law I couldn't prove some of what I have stated....however.......with a loaded gun to my head....and a yes or no answer required.....I would say imo yes, the Bulgarians would be the most severe case of steroid use possibly ever....again I base this on alot of trusted recollections, articles, pictures, I personally have scrap books documenting whatever I can buy, copy, ect. on Bulgarian weightlifting.....I do not get the impression Vik is as informed as either of us soley on this issue(as I find an undertone of Bulgarian god complex with relation to other programs/methods/countries such as China or say Poland)

No malicious intent here, but I feel like its arguing for a war and ignoring the human atrocities commited(to make an analogy)

[Mike Frost]

@Chris

perhaps this proves that mixing government and private is a big mistake! The Olympics is one of the greatest examples, its rigged to where in olympic weightlifting if you had a 77kg lifter from Surinam, the odds are totally against him/her for a number of reasons, most attributed to lack of funding, wealth, bribes, piss scandles ect.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Yes, the root problem is that government(s) have granted these organizations an "exclusive right" to the word "Olympic" and the state uses its guns to enforce this restriction. Thus, all these sporting agencies are fascist, not free market voluntary agencies. There are also many non judicial "regulations", tax compliance issues, anti-trust exemptions, etc.

[Arturo Gómez]

In the 80´s, much people used steroids to support training, like the bulgarians. Others, like hungarians, used steroids as pretext to practically no training, because drug makes the works.
I think most of the knowledge derived of that unhappy time is corrupted by this fact.
What remains, for me:
1) Does not exists a general formula, especially if we work in function of the person, not of a team selected for us.
2) Not necesarilly you must make those anual cycles with long preparatory and transitive period, with bizarre exercises
3) Not necesarilly is bad attemp personal records more than once a week. Sometimes a very heavy training is convenient
4) olympic lifts, more squats, generally are sufficient. Obvious, sometimes is necesary pay atention to solve particular difficulties with other excercises.

This is not exactly "bulgarian system" but neither "soviet system", or "hungarian system", or "polish system"

I think is time to think with our own head.

[Mike Frost]

Right on Arturo! Ultimately the lifter has to adapt and incorporate other exercises to correct flaws. Ex. I'm coming off an injury, finally back to c&j and I'm wobbly after I jerk a weight, therefore I will perform jerk recovery's until I can discard it.