Topic: To those who don't like the "Bulgarian" approach, why?

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

The application of experience and knowledge do not require outside (central) planning. The question isn't really whether there is planning, really, but whether the individual will cede all of his plans to the plans of an outside authority, disregarding reality in the process. In fact, adjusting to the natural flow of the individual's performance requires far more of both experience and knowledge, including the ability to push the envelope when the iron is hot and tone it down adequately to achieve productive work on a day where its not meant to be. Thus a natural approach requires superior coaching to achieve optimal results, whereas program-obsessed coaches will often have little real convictions of proper training and even randomly try other coaches programs, hoping to hit the bulls-eye from across the room with their eyes closed, endlessly trying different programs on a case by case basis. Human beings can not be studied or manipulated like bits of unthinking matter, without unintended consequences, which I would argue with periodization means more stagnation and wasted effort. I would even go so far as to say the effort to plan long term programs, controlling as many variables as possible, is an evasion from the law of nature, from the reality that not every variable can ever be controlled since human beings choose and act.

[MasterChief]

You certainly got a point. However, I would be interested to see how the most succesfull nations plan the training for their athletes.
I guess the training of an professional athlete is somewhat more planable as the athlete devotes all his attention towards one goal,
whereas the hobby athlete is dealing with everyday problems.

On a different note: I also wonder why people are not more seeking to copy the russian system since they are one of the leading
nations in weightlifting for about 60 years.

[Arturo Gómez]

In the 80´s, we, weightlifting lovers, intuitively liked train heavy snatch, heavy clean and jerk, heavy squat.
We were severily attacked by the sofisticated coaches who had just read the sovietic, hungarian, or polish system.
They proposed to us a very complicated training, with variables stuff, hang clean and hang snatch, jumps, and more and more acrobatic exercises , avoiding high weights and classical lifts, and expecting for marvelous results.
The bulgarian system, in those years, showed that we aren´t so wrong. Is possible make a simpler training, based in few exercises and high weights.
Obviously, with variations in function of several factors, but it made, in our countries, fall the dictatorship of the "scientifical systems" in wave in those years.

[ViKtoricus]

I would like to add that Ivan Abadjhiev is a believer of planned training programs. If you check out Alex Krychev's (Ivan's first olympic medalist) website, CSAnutrition.com, you will see that there is a 16-week training program created by Ivan himself.

I believe there IS such a thing as optimal planning of training. But of course, like all things, we need a balance...

[Arturo Gómez]

Exactly. There is no contradiction. More simples is not synonimous of anarquic.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Optimal for who? People are individuals. There is no evidence one program could be optimal for more than one person. Abajiev might plan, without contradicting my statements about naturalistic training. I did not claim to speak for Abajiev but for myself. Still, I suspect Abajiev's "plan" is more like a schedule of training than a periodized program...

[Mike Frost]

Vik, when you say "Bulgarian" I think you need to be carefull. Because(for me) "Bulgarian" means 2 things.......1.Exercise selection 2.Training frequency

If you asked me..."Mike do you train Bulgarian style?" I would say yes if this only covered the exercise selection i.e. FS, BS, snatch, clean and jerk ect.

However referencing the training frequency and max out volume, no, I would not train "Bulgarian".

One of the problems I see with your understanding is that you seem so naive about drugs and the Bulgarians. I was lucky to have a former coach who attended many famous olympics/comps over the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. He used to tell me stories like....."Bulgarians 85kg or less would out eat super heavys from other countires....were talking 4 more plates of food." Seemed like an old wise tale to me, but some truth in that yes due to training 4 times a day one would out eat someone who trains less frequently. Also the Bulgarians lived at the National training center LMAO!!!! THEY HAD NO LIFE!!! Syringes were the norm, to the point were....The Butcher has a very almost pro-steroid attitude, which is the most discouraging. The irony about Bulgaria in weightlifting, is they've developed the sport so much, but they've equally destroyed it with drug use(serious amounts dude). I've heard stories from my old coach about team Canada(my country) meeting the Bulgarians, and some of the lifters had yellow skin LOL. They were so doped up their skin changed yellow(which can happen) and their eyes looked like wolves LOL!!

Vik you therefore seem like someone who is not only naive, but knows very little about how bad the drug problem is pertaining to Bulgaria. This is where everyone will say to me...."everyone does steroids"....my response is NO I reject that. Theirs plenty of evidence to support countries(like Korea) have a way better track record. Obviously if you don't care about drugs in weightlifting my argument is discarded...but if your like me it turns your stomach as I am 100% opposed to steroid use in organized sport.

My question to you then Vik, is.... Are the Chinese wrong? Are the Soviets/Russians wrong???? LOL do you even realize how much the Chinese developed things like pull technique ect. probably not, because I suspect you know nothing about their training and the emphasis they put on "BEING HEALTHY" above all else, where the Bulgarian approach is win gold....#$%& your health and the long term effects of steroid use. Funny how anti-doping testing improves and Bulgaria falls off the map!!!! Yes they do have that 105'er though

So be carefull with your obnoxious threads about this topic, and post a thread when you have all the facts. Please realize that IMO everything Abadjhiev says is assuming your on massive amounts of roids, and are probably eating 7,000 calories a day lol. Example being he believes the Back squat is not needed and that a "healthy" lifter can evolve to were he/she does only the 2 classical lifts......you do realize "Healthy" is a metaphor I hope lol for something far more evil. The Bulgarians were so juiced up their bodies were literally toxic, and they most likely mastered the understanding of steroids to the point where the lifter was barely alive to train, monitoring their toxicity levels as such to see how much the human body can handle before death(or something not far off).

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

From my view, this entire post above is proof that drug testing is and will always be a failure. If the goal is to ensure a level playing field and peaceful competition, drug testing cannot ever achieve it. It only raises endless suspicions and bitterness, while punishing the innocent and rapidly invading privacy rights to a degree that is beyond the pale.