Topic: A concept that alot of weightlifters don't seem to understand...

[ViKtoricus]

I want you guys to put on your thinking caps. This is a learning experience for us all...

If weightlifters (at the elite level) are the most physically "powerful" athletes in the world and "power" is defined as strength (force applied to an object) multiplied by speed (velocity of movement), then why are we ever doubting the effectiveness of the olympic lifts' (or their respected variations) in building both strength and speed?

There is this obsession over some specialized squat training programs, but WHY? We're not powerlifters. We're weightlifters. We seem to have this notion that the squat is a "foundational" lift, when in fact, it is just an assistance exercise...

I understand that we can never truly reach our greatest potential unless we include squats (front or back) into our training programs, but why are we treating it like it's the most important thing in the world?

I am going to have to say that I am in firm belief that the olympic lifts WILL IMPROVE our squats. It's been established through practical conclusions and scientific data that the olympic lifts are FAR BETTER stimulants of POWER than SQUATS and DEADLIFTS.

If you think about it, a properly executed power clean produces a stronger muscular tension than any other type of strength lift ever. At the peak explosion of the pull, we are generating a much higher level of WORK than any of the range of motions in a squat or a deadlift. The only difference is that we are doing it at a very, VERY short distance and time.

There is only one logical explanation as to why weightlifters are not only more "explosive," but are also stronger than most powerlifters alive... They can generate alot of power. This carries over VERY WELL to our squats and deadlifts. We can easily switch to powerlifting while powerlifters can't easily switch to weightlifting.

The Olympic lifts ARE the FOUNDATIONAL LIFTS in a way that they train us to produce the highest level of TENSION. Louie Simmons made a feeble attempt of imitating the kind of training effect that olympic lifting has, but has only partially succeeded with it. There's nothing better than the original way of doing things...

[Shaun Le Conte]

I like your enthusiasm.

I agree, some people fuss over squats too much but many agree with you that squats aren't everything.

Olympic lifts will improve squats to about the same extent that doing squats with 70-80% for a few reps will improve squats. Many sets will be needed, but it's valuable practice considering the ultimate goal of the sport.

I've seen your videos on youtube - good luck with training and post some videos of your progress.

[ViKtoricus]

I like your enthusiasm.

I agree, some people fuss over squats too much but many agree with you that squats aren't everything.

Olympic lifts will improve squats to about the same extent that doing squats with 70-80% for a few reps will improve squats. Many sets will be needed, but it's valuable practice considering the ultimate goal of the sport.

I've seen your videos on youtube - good luck with training and post some videos of your progress.

Your words are appreciated. Thank you.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I have never seen any elite weightlifter or coach claim squats are everything. From my view, the relationship between the squats and lifts is very simple to understand. Given equal technique, the lifter that squats more will win. Given equal squat strength, the lifter with superior technique will win. Squats are your base of strength. A bigger base means more tools to work with. Technique is the measure of how efficiently you utilize that strength in the lifts. Both are necessary, both give diminishing returns at a certain point, and both need to be maximized and carefully prioritized based on individual needs and goals.

[ViKtoricus]

I have never seen any elite weightlifter or coach claim squats are everything. From my view, the relationship between the squats and lifts is very simple to understand. Given equal technique, the lifter that squats more will win. Given equal squat strength, the lifter with superior technique will win. Squats are your base of strength. A bigger base means more tools to work with. Technique is the measure of how efficiently you utilize that strength in the lifts. Both are necessary, both give diminishing returns at a certain point, and both need to be maximized and carefully prioritized based on individual needs and goals.

I agree and disagree with certain things. I agree with most of it. I just don't like how you labeled the olympic-lifts as if they are mainly technique-based.

The Olympic lifts ARE strength-builders. It's just one of those things where you can't really progress with them if you don't include squats.

It's the same concept with how powerlifters train their upper-back for the bench press. A "massively strong upper-back" does NOT equate to an excellent bench press. It is the bread that holds the icing, but not the icing itself.

Saying squats are your "base of strength" for your olympic lifts is like saying bent-over rows are your base of strength for your bench press. The true "base of strength" is the actual performance on the clean+jerk and the snatch. Training must be devoted to increasing the lifts and everything else must be considered an assistance exercise.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

To be clear, I am not claiming that the snatch and clean and jerk are not strength exercises. Of course, they develop strength. But, they are primarily a power exercise or from my view even an "expression of power." Power is strength X speed, in crude terms. Can you train for speed in weightlifting or is it largely genetic? Not sure, myself, but I am skeptical speed can be progressively improved in this sport. This leaves strength and technique to work on. ;)

[ViKtoricus]

To be clear, I am not claiming that the snatch and clean and jerk are not strength exercises. Of course, they develop strength. But, they are primarily a power exercise or from my view even an "expression of power." Power is strength X speed, in crude terms. Can you train for speed in weightlifting or is it largely genetic? Not sure, myself, but I am skeptical speed can be progressively improved in this sport. This leaves strength and technique to work on. ;)

lol. I believe "power" is something that everyone can improve. It is ourselves that limits our best potential.

Is it hard to believe that most of us are capable of cleaning+jerking at least 315 pounds? I am not saying that it is your assumption that we can't. I am just saying that people tend to think "damn, that's too much weight."

The people who have the drive and determination tends to find ways to accomodate for whatever deficiencies they have, either genetics or current logistics in life. I mean, take a look at Matt Kroczaleski. He may have very limited time to train (as far as what is claimed at elitefts, which I will just assume is true), but he still managed to accomplish something significant.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Power expression can most certainly be improved, or one couldn't snatch and clean and jerk more with training. However, I believe in weightlifting, as opposed to sprinting for example, the primary method of improving power output is through force-strength output gains. Secondarily, superior efficiency-technique in the lifts allows for more efficient expression of the power available.