Topic: When should we shoot for a personal record?

[Arturo Gómez]

If my life is free enough, i like maximum everyday. But other responsabilities, work, family, study, force to space much more than this ideal frequency.

[John Way]

"But my question was geared towards "strength development" more than weights lifted. A person who is capable of snatching 200 pounds but can only do 140 pounds due to weak technique is a "weak weightlifter." If he works on his technique and his snatch goes from 140 to 170, he did not get stronger or faster. He merely improved his technique."

There is a lot of neurological effort that goes into lifting weights not just technique with or versus strength especially at the peak weights or weights that one is "truely" capable of lifting!

Making sure you can fully obtain the correct positions using lifting shoes might be a good start.

[Arturo Gómez]

Snatch has a cinematic chain, that brokes for the weaker link.
So, if it is perfectly, harmonically equilibrated, the proper snatch (maximimum, of preference) is an optimal training.
But if you fails everyways of the same thing, this is generally because one of the phases of the movement has a problem, normally asssociaten to an especifically muscular weakness.
In that case is convenient to forget the classical movemente, and center  the work in improve  the strengh of problematic phases.

[Andy Dick]

This is a loaded question, it is going to come down to the philosophy of the coach…

The most important thing in the beginning is developing good technique. Trying to hit PRs in an ugly power snatch won't last long.

I agree, for the beginner technique needs to be the primary focus.  However, the lifter still needs to progressively raise weights.  Perhaps not push max attempts every workout but the lifter still needs to be getting stronger while improving technique.  The trick is balancing the two so that the athlete is getting stronger but also improving on technique and reinforcing good technique.  In my opinion, for the beginners, I spend a bit more time on perfecting technique because I believe in the principle of "practice makes permanent."  So if you are pushing max weights but with poor form you are basically just teaching yourself to do the lift incorrectly and can be more difficult in the long run to correct.  But at the same time going heavier (perhaps not maxes) allows a coach to more easily see what is going on because the athlete can not basically muscle the weight into saving a bad lift.

If that person can squat 800 pounds, but doesn't know how to snatch, they are still a newbie in weightlifting. A very strong newbie. Need to take some initial time to develop skill.

I agree at this point the lifter already has very strong leg strength.  I would say that we do not need to spend a lot of time on getting stronger in the squat because they already are strong (taking into consideration what their raw squat is not what it is with the wraps and suits).  The goal for this powerlifter moving to weightlifting is to maintain the leg strength while perfecting technique on the Olympic lifts and get the weight to progress on the Olympic lifts.  There is very little point to having an >800lb squat but only a <200lb snatch.

But my question was geared towards "strength development" more than weights lifted. A person who is capable of snatching 200 pounds but can only do 140 pounds due to weak technique is a "weak weightlifter." If he works on his technique and his snatch goes from 140 to 170, he did not get stronger or faster. He merely improved his technique.

If strength development is your main goal then work in 3-4 weeks where your focus is on Squats and let the load of the Olympic lifts take back seat for a while.  I do this following comps and to also give my body a little rest.

However, I would say you are not 100% correct on this, there is a high degree of assumption to say this.  Who would say they are capable of snatching 200 lbs based purely on what their squat is?  Remember power is a very high component to the lifts as well.  Strong legs will increase their chances but remember the squat is not the snatch.  Yes training the squat will strengthen the legs to make it more likely to snatch heavier weights but the best way to get strong snatching is by snatching.  The muscles work differently (timing, position of the weight in relation to the body, mechanics involved in the lift) in a snatch as well as all the other muscles of the body that need to be called into play and strengthened to successfully snatch.  Also, for sake of argument in this example, remember improving technique will allow the weightlifter to approach that 200lb capability to eventually meet this point and then surpass it.  But I would say once you can move a lifter from being able to train with 140 lbs to 170 lbs consistently and for possibly doubles then they may no longer have a 200lb capability but perhaps greater capability.

Also as I think Arturo was trying to get at another factor involved in how often one is able to go heavy is what is your "life" like?  Someone who only eats, sleeps, lifts, and focuses on recovery will be able to go heavier more times that one who has to hold down a job, family, school, ect.

In my experience, going heavy many times a week because I was feeling really good may be part of the factor why I ran into knee troubles.  Because at the time I was hitting many PRs but I don't think I was giving myself enough time to rest.  Eventually my knee was getting sore but I was still getting stronger in the squats so I just tried to work thought it.  Over time it just got so bad it set me back considerably.  Now I prefer to have one day (usually Saturday) were the focus is heavier on both the Snatch and Clean and Jerk (where I have a goal weight and then as I am doing the workout I can stay at the goal but if I am lifting great I have a little room to go heavier if I want).  The rest of the week the weights are less than what I will do on Saturday and I only increase my squats to a certain point.  Before I had to take time off with my knee my squats were very good but my Olympic lifts were not improving (I think as a consequence to technique flaws but also my legs were just worn out all the time).  I feel with this format I am still lifting relatively higher weights (I use 90% of the Saturday goal weight during the week on Olympic lifts) but my legs feel much more recovered between workouts and they feel very good for Saturday after taking Friday's totally off. (But I will say this is what is working for me in my situation with work and family).

[ViKtoricus]

 

Nice thoughts Andy. Thanks.

[Jesster]

I have always said, for all lifters- "Strike while the iron is hot." I am not a fan of planning every detail of a weightlifter's training, at all. I believe it is pure arrogance on the part of the coach to think they can do so, especially to hold a lifter back in the present because they think it will help later.

I agree more with this everyday, and I like the quote. I think volume needs to be controlled much more than holding back on a daily best. I know some days I get stressed by going for a best. Maybe some feel like they are protecting someone from that stress, and a resulting burnout. If my recall of my log is correct, I made PR's a little quicker using a maxout approach, even if it was for any rep max up to 12 reps. This was with very similar volume (+/- 10% or so).

[Andy Dick]

If my recall of my log is correct, I made PR's a little quicker using a maxout approach, even if it was for any rep max up to 12 reps. This was with very similar volume (+/- 10% or so).

I do like the idea of going for rep PRs also.  It gives the athletes something to keep motivated especially when 1RM PRs may not be coming as quickly as they like.

ADDITION: Vik I really want to encourage you to find a coach, they can do wonders with your technique.  I for the most part am self coached because the closest competent coach is a 1.5 hour drive away 1 way.  I used to get some coaching video from Chris and it helped but videos only allow you so much and can only help so much.  He got me hooked up with a coach who is out of state that I try to fly out and get coaching from now and then.  At once time I tried to move out there but I couldn't find a job so I stayed here and and eventually ended up getting married now I am stuck here, lol.  But the times I do get live coach is so much worth it and invaluable and helps so much, I always leave learning so much.  There is much to be said about the immediate feedback a coach can give and help you correct.

[ViKtoricus]

Thanks alot guys.