Topic: "Ten Sets of What"

[Shaun Le Conte]

Avid readers of Bud Charniga's web sites might be interested to know that there are a few new articles posted recently. A couple are reviews of the recent European Championships, and another is a critique of an article in Ironman written by Charles Poliquin


http://sportivnypress.com/

[Jim Storch]

Very interesting and useful! As per usual.

[Andy Dick]

LOL German Volume Training!!!  I am somewhat familiar with German Volume training.  Here are my 2 cents.

I agree with Bud's article he is spot on.

I would never suggest an athlete or weightlifter ever do this program.  There is no functionality to weightlifting or sport.

The strength coach he talked about in his article that was basically dropping his athletes like flies is a quack.  I being a strength coach, question if this guy even had any training to be a coach or to even have any sort of certification.  What he was doing to those guys was NUTS.

The German volume program is basically a hypertrophy program that loads you up with volume and short rest.  But as Bud states anyone that does a day will be very sore for the next week.  The program is basically a bodybuilder routine because you basically do 1 body part a day once a week.  So legs on like Monday, then not again until the following Monday.  This makes sense because you will be destroyed after that day.

I know 4 people (3 males, 1 female) who have done this program.  None of them were athletes.  They wanted to put on size and mass (bodybuilding).  From talking to them they basically said what we are all thinking: it sucked a lot and they were really sore (especially the leg day).  However, they did feel they got the goals they wanted, they put on a some size.

Now back to this strength coach, to have someone do this twice a week and following it with sled pushes or pulls is insanity.  (I think back to when I was doing 6x8 and that was terribly hard and that was all I did, I did no other running or the likes).  I feel for these athletes blindly following this guy thinking it is making them better.  His routine had overtraining written all over it.

[Matt Erdman]

I've been debating what to say to this. I'll just make a few points.

1. It's in poor taste, to say the least, to attack someone who has done probably the best thing for American weightlifting in several decades.

2. A bone-head trainer mis-applying one of Poliquin's programs should be no reflection on him personally.

3. A VERY minor amount of searching would reveal that Poliquin recommends 10 sets of 3-6 reps for more advanced lifters.

4. To discount German weightlifting methods in favor of Russian or Chinese methods because of drug use is way beyond absurd.

5. Charniga can actual sell you a book showing that the greatest weightlifter of all time got his start with 10 sets of freaking 10!

[Shaun Le Conte]

What did Charles Poliquin do that is the best thing for American weightlifting in decades?
is it this incentive system, mentioned here?
http://extremeconditioning.com/blog/2010/08/29/poliquin-performance-named-official-partner-of-usa-weightlifting.php
What does Poliquin Performance get out of this arrangement?

I know that if I was the person who translated the bulk of Russian weightlifting materials, I'd consider statements like what is found in this article on Poliquin's site a personal attack, especially since it's hearsay

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/637/Understanding_Russian_Weightlifting_Methods.aspx

If Poliquin thinks that 10 sets of 3-6 reps is best for more advanced trainers, he should stick to that advice. Part of the problem of getting yourself known in bodybuilding publishing is the need to continually pump out articles about various topics. I remember a well known writer from Quebec, Canada writing weekly articles for various online magazines such as Iron Magazine and of course Testosterone magazine and if you asked him about a specific program you would realize that they are concoctions written up out of the necessity of getting something out there for people to read. I don't want to knock this particular person mentioned above, because I know he has volunteered thousands of hours of free time helping others. I am just saying that copious content generation is a necessity in what Bud Charniga calls the business of "information for sale".

[Matt Erdman]

What did Charles Poliquin do that is the best thing for American weightlifting in decades?
is it this incentive system, mentioned here?
http://extremeconditioning.com/blog/2010/08/29/poliquin-performance-named-official-partner-of-usa-weightlifting.php
What does Poliquin Performance get out of this arrangement?

Yes. I have no idea.

I know that if I was the person who translated the bulk of Russian weightlifting materials, I'd consider statements like what is found in this article on Poliquin's site a personal attack, especially since it's hearsay

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/637/Understanding_Russian_Weightlifting_Methods.aspx

Poliquin specifically RECOMMENDS sportivny press in the article. It seems unlikely that he believes Charniga to be an erroneous translator.

If Poliquin thinks that 10 sets of 3-6 reps is best for more advanced trainers, he should stick to that advice.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. The original GVT article was not marketed to high level athletes. It was for bodybuilding. Here is an example of his training for an elite athlete: http://www.everythingtrackandfield.com/catalog/matriarch/OnePiecePage.asp_Q_PageID_E_149_A_PageName_E_ArticlePowerCleanProgram

Part of the problem of getting yourself known in bodybuilding publishing is the need to continually pump out articles about various topics. I remember a well known writer from Quebec, Canada writing weekly articles for various online magazines such as Iron Magazine and of course Testosterone magazine and if you asked him about a specific program you would realize that they are concoctions written up out of the necessity of getting something out there for people to read. I don't want to knock this particular person mentioned above, because I know he has volunteered thousands of hours of free time helping others. I am just saying that copious content generation is a necessity in what Bud Charniga calls the business of "information for sale".

I don't doubt that. However I think it is wrong to blatantly label the author that way based on a stupid trainer grossly misusing a training program.

I should add that I have used the 10 sets of 10 method with squats and snatch grip deadlifts. I power cleaned a pr during the program and was a better weightlifter after than before. I'm not saying that everyone should run out and try it. I have a very high work capacity, so it was challenging but manageable. I've also spent a lot of time on "Four to six sets of 1 to 6 repetitions/set..." and not lifting to your limit. The results were literally miserable.

[MasterChief]

I fully agree with Matt on this topic. A quick research shows that Poliquin knows what he is doing in the field
of body building AND training athletes (olympic level). That program is for body building and there it might
do a good job. In the articles I read about it he also recommended it for that purpose only.

[Andy Dick]

That program is for body building and there it might do a good job. In the articles I read about it he also recommended it for that purpose only.

That is what I said...but with such a program there is not much else you can do in conjunction with it.  This is because the body is so shot after the protocol.  I have heard similar programs used for hypertrophy and work capacity but not much else was done with it because increased time is needed for recovery.  I do not bash Poliquin but the training method does not account for the increased time needed for skill development for weightlifting or sports. 

This program should only really fit in at the beginning of an annual cycle that focuses on the above mentioned goals if the coach wants to force the athlete to take time off of skill acquisition or other training methods (if it is used at all).  Past that only 3-4 weeks should really be devoted to that strict training regime (for most cases), if you look at his other cycles they don't allow much extra.  Talking to the people I know that did the different cycles 10 of 10 and the intermediate did not like how it screwed up thier running routines because their legs felt like garbage.  As I said the people who did it for the hypertrophy gains did find it affective so it is not a bunk routine in that regard.  But for sport different training methods may be more beneficial.

With the increased time needed for technique work for the olympic lifts, this time can be better spent working on the classic lifts.  Specificity is a key component for any sport.  So to do many training cycles that do not focus on specific techinque for the lifts or sport can be detrimental.  If you try to do the 10 sets of 10 then add in skill work (sport specific technique, speed development work, agility work, plyometric work) or olympic lifts you risk the same muscle damage that the college strength coach was causing.

Further more my other issue is with this training method the athlete or lifter needs a great deal of work capacity to do this.  If the individual is unaccostumed to lifting that may reps per set this can cause injury.  To those unaccustomed to exercise or with an athlete (as most are) who do not maintain strength and conditioning by doing things in the off-season you are plain lucky if they don't get hurt.

ADDITION:  Another thing that must be kept in mind (but a minor point) is that care is needed with this program in regards to body weight also.  Since increase in muscle size results in increased body weight which can push some out of a weight class.  Then the coach needs to determine if this increase in size is benefiting the athlete or lifter in thier sport or weightlifting.