Topic: Why do we do waves in our programs?

[Matt Erdman]

Andy, I was being a bit sarcastic in my post. It's always hard to get that across via interent. 

I do believe however that work capacity applies, and even more so to classical lifts. I think the idea that technique is first to go with fatigue is a little out-dated. You have just about every national team around the world training through fatigue at least occasionally. Maintaining your technique is a mental matter. Though you wouldn't want to try it with beginners. Any weightlifter with experience knows that it can take several attempts at a new max to hit it. So even with the fatigue of previous attempts, something has actually improved after 3 or more maximum attempts. Naturally this is unlikely to takes place with squats.

I've never seen anyone advocate waves exclusively. That is a little strange to me.

[Andy Dick]

No hard feelings Matt :).  I would say there is point in what you said about work capacity though because waves can be used to increase volume and thus work capacity over sets.  I do see the need for the waves in planning an program around competition situations.  I am just trying to figure out why we do what we do.  I am going to start putting olympic lifts back into my program in 2 weeks and I want to have a good idea of what I am doing when I write my programs.  I just want to get away from aimlessly doing waves with no purpose (or no known purpose to me) just because that is all my coach has had me do.  The coach that asked me why waves, saw it in a program a college kid brought back and was just more thinking out loud but it got me thinking about my own programs. 

[Andy Dick]

I thought I read that PAP was good up to 8 minutes after an attempt. The ideal time was also dependent on the recovery ability, or GPP of the athlete. But the optimum interval seemed to vary from study to study.
You might want to read Kyle Pierce's paper on cluster sets. Some explanations might be gathered from the article.

I did a little research on PAP because I found an article about it through the NSCA.  Optimal time is 8-12 minutes they said dependent on the intensity of back squat load, you were correct.  It seemed more research was on vertical jump and some on sprint speed after heavy squats.

[DanHartley]

Tell the guy to grow a pair and get some work capacity!  Seriously, the snatch is like half of your deadlift. If you are worn out after a couple singles, then you suck. As for the 3 attempt thing, sometimes (especially at a world level [I've heard as much as 30 min]) you have to take lifts in the warmup room between attempts. Coordination is something different.

As for squats and strength lifts, there is always need for variety at some level. There is also a need for volume for most lifts, so why not waves on occasion.

Holy crap! I wish I could snatch 40% of my deadlift!

[Matt Erdman]

Tell the guy to grow a pair and get some work capacity!  Seriously, the snatch is like half of your deadlift. If you are worn out after a couple singles, then you suck. As for the 3 attempt thing, sometimes (especially at a world level [I've heard as much as 30 min]) you have to take lifts in the warmup room between attempts. Coordination is something different.

As for squats and strength lifts, there is always need for variety at some level. There is also a need for volume for most lifts, so why not waves on occasion.

Holy crap! I wish I could snatch 40% of my deadlift!

You need to get to work Dan! 

How long have you been weightlifting?

[DanHartley]

Tell the guy to grow a pair and get some work capacity!  Seriously, the snatch is like half of your deadlift. If you are worn out after a couple singles, then you suck. As for the 3 attempt thing, sometimes (especially at a world level [I've heard as much as 30 min]) you have to take lifts in the warmup room between attempts. Coordination is something different.

As for squats and strength lifts, there is always need for variety at some level. There is also a need for volume for most lifts, so why not waves on occasion.

Holy crap! I wish I could snatch 40% of my deadlift!

You need to get to work Dan! 

How long have you been weightlifting?

Hah thanks! Oh and how I know! Let's see I did my first snatch 6 weeks ago?? I can only make it to Coach Hatch's gym once a week. I've really fallen in love with the snatch though. I had a huge grin on my face when I hit 70kg. I started learning the Olympic lifts to help with my training for strongman. Traditional weighlifters are beasts!!

[Matt Erdman]

You have plenty of time. Good luck.

[ViKtoricus]

Wave Loading is good because the bulgarian weightlifters do it.

And that is enough good reason for me.