Topic: Why do we do waves in our programs?

[Andy Dick]

I have a question that I hope will facilitate some good discussion.  Today I was challenged with this question from another strength coach "what is the point of waves in programming?"  What I mean by waves for example is if I have snatch one day and my sets look like this 75x2 80x2 85x2 75x2 80x2 85x2.

It was explained as thus by my coach: that we lift to a goal intensity then if we can achieve that weight we can drop down to +2.5kg of the first set of the wave and work up to another goal attempt with 2.5 above the first wave goal.  But if we miss the goal weight in the first wave that it gives us the opportunity to drop back down and fix the technique flaw then work back to achieve the attempt.

This was countered by the strength coach by these statements against waves.  It does not make sense in that: why warm up and work to a goal intensity then drop the weight back down and do two more sets and work towards the goal again?  When energy is in limited supply you are wasting 2 sets of energy.  Why not get the set then rest 5 minutes and attempt it again if missed or attempt 2.5 more if successful?  The other problem is if you do it wrong with 85kg and miss the lift and you drop back down to correct it you could potentially do the error again during the time taken to correct, expending more energy and when you get back to the second wave goal set you are more fatigued increasing the chances of another miss or you may simply do it wrong again.  This poses the question if more time is to be spent at a lighter intensity working on technique why is this not occurring in warm-ups then when the lifter approaches the goal reps to really focus on them getting the goal weights?

In my thinking on this I also add these three thoughts: why does it seem that the only lift my program waves are attempted are the olympic lifts not squat or assistance exercises?  Also, if we are aiming to train the body to perform in a certain way in competition where we get 3 attempts and are done; why do we wave?  In a competition we cannot lower the weight again.  One can argue we also don't get more attempts than 3 but wouldn't that add crediance to only do maybe 1 more attempt to correct.  On this point as well, leading to my third thought, wouldn’t the fact that our technique broke down at the 85kg (for discussion sake 85% for example) lead us to want to train at that intensity more and more often because that is the time the technique starts to breakdown?  (This is assuming technique is sound up to that point, if technique breaks down earlier it should be corrected earlier with the lighter intensity).

[Jesster]

Wave loading never made good sense to me. I know some argue that it helps take advantage of some post activation potentiation mechanisms, but I think this clearly has only benefits in power, not strength. Maybe they think because the O-lifts create greater power than squats, you will get a benefit of achieving more power output on your lower intensities. I'm not sure there is any incredible benefit.

[Gary Gibson]

What little progress I've made so far has been because of waves. Dropping down and working back up has always allowed me to hit my prior heaviest single for a double and with better speed and form than the first time around.

That coach's argument may sound great in his own head, but the body works the way it does. The classic lifts are about power and precision and those are served by ramping up and then dropping back down and ramping back up. This doesn't work as well on simpler strength lifts like squats where speed and technique take a distant back seat to pure strength and being fresh.

[Matt Erdman]

Tell the guy to grow a pair and get some work capacity!  Seriously, the snatch is like half of your deadlift. If you are worn out after a couple singles, then you suck. As for the 3 attempt thing, sometimes (especially at a world level [I've heard as much as 30 min]) you have to take lifts in the warmup room between attempts. Coordination is something different.

As for squats and strength lifts, there is always need for variety at some level. There is also a need for volume for most lifts, so why not waves on occasion.

[Andy Dick]

Wave loading never made good sense to me. I know some argue that it helps take advantage of some post activation potentiation mechanisms,...

The thing about post activation potentiation and my knowledge on it (I am not an expert this is just in my limited study of it) is that for it to be effective it must occur in close proximity to the activity that is intended to excite the nervous system.  I have heard it can be beneficial to strength activities as well.  I read a study discussing tuck or squat jumps before squat maxing in order to help with numbers.  I have also read the vise versa heavy squatting before depth jumps to increase vertical.  Either way by resting 3+ minutes between attempts any excitation that would be elicited from dropping down would be lost (any other excitation would already be achieved from previous sets).  IE there could be no added benefit.  If dropping down to elicit a greater RFD then in theory we should drop to even lower than a first set since 65% seems to be around the weight were the greatest RFD and power output can be achieved simultaneously which most programs do not do.

Dropping down and working back up has always allowed me to hit my prior heaviest single for a double and with better speed and form than the first time around.

That coach's argument may sound great in his own head, but the body works the way it does. The classic lifts are about power and precision and those are served by ramping up and then dropping back down and ramping back up. This doesn't work as well on simpler strength lifts like squats where speed and technique take a distant back seat to pure strength and being fresh.

I intend not to attack here but to ask questions searching for an answer.  Have you empirically tested bar speed (what a tendo unit or something similar) after the 3rd set and the 6th (highest intensities of the waves) do you know for a fact it is faster?  Correcting a movement will cause it to be more efficient and faster for those with inefficient technique we know this.  I understand the ability to drop down and correct a movement for the beginner but over time once technique is honed in does dropping down continue to be beneficial?  Besides anecdotal evidence do we know for a fact waves are superior in training power.  One does not see plyometric activities trained in this way (mb throws, box jumps, depth jumps etc.).

When you say it is different for the classic lifts I do not fully agree.  Muscle fibers do not differentiate based on lifts.  They function the same way they are intended no matter the lift.  Certain laws still apply (force velocity relationship, SAID principle, overload, excitability, recruitability, and recruitment order).  We know for a muscle to continue to adapt it must continue to be stressed more and more.  The fibers we want to attack for weightlifting, the type 2 fibers, are the hardest to stimulate and probably best applied to our sport are best stimulated by high intensity.  The only other theory I have heard (and this is an anecdotal theory) is by working up intensity and reps up to the point of muscular failure and then dropping the intensity back down and working to failure for 1 or 2 more sets (which has very little application to Olympic lifting). 

If someone wants to move a weight fast and powerfully, we can all agree the body does so when it is fatigued as little as possible.  Increase the fatigue then technique and speed are the first things to diminish.  I also don’t think it is a work capacity issue.  With a higher work capacity you should be able to still apply same principle but accomplish even more sets with the higher intensity and spend more time doing so.  Now the point about at the international level there is a need for attempts between sets that makes more sense and I can see that.  I am not saying waves are necessarily bad and variation is good.  But when I started getting a coach to write my programs for me all I did and ever have done is waves.  So to say it is for variation is not the case because it is not treated as such.

ADDITION: BTW he was not attacking waves he was just saying he was unsure on why they were done when you look at research studies that never look at them or somet that say that a more standard loading is more beneficial and I also know the negative views many have on this site on research studies so I am not really interested in opening that debate again.

[Jesster]

I thought I read that PAP was good up to 8 minutes after an attempt. The ideal time was also dependent on the recovery ability, or GPP of the athlete. But the optimum interval seemed to vary from study to study.
You might want to read Kyle Pierce's paper on cluster sets. Some explanations might be gathered from the article.

[Andy Dick]

Thanks for the direction, Ill read it.  I am also going to peek at the research he used and read up on those to see what I can find.

I also have Arthur Dreschler's Weightlifting Encyclopedia but its at my other job I am going to be there Saturday and will read up in there and see what I can find.  I am sure he has to have something on it. 

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I believe waves are useful, especially for building stamina needed to warmup again in between competition lifts if one has a long wait. I also think they are particularly useful sometimes when maybe you start off a little out of sync in the lifts in a given workout. Often, by going down in weight you can make the corrections, regain momentum and confidence, and turn a lousy workout into something productive in subsequent waves.