Topic: Weightlifting Program Design

[Andy Dick]

Hi Folks,

In the next couple days I am going to attach a 12 week program for Olympic Weightlifting that I am hoping to get some feedback on.  I am a high school S&C coach and we are putting together a weightlifting team.  The program is geared towards many of the kids that are interested in the team that are athletes for other sports.  Primarily the football, basketball, and volleyball team.  I was wondering if I could get some input and maybe spur some very good programming discussion as well.  It is tricky because for many of these kids weightlifting is not thier main sport.  So we are having to include other lifts to keep them strong as well as speed and agility days.  Also, because it is a high school weight room we do not have access on the weekend so that also ties our hands as far as lifting days.  I look forward to hearing what you have to say once I get it posted.

Andy

[James A. Naples Jr.]

Andy. . . I would love to see it.  I have a competition tomorrow and have been trying to plan a new outline.  Programming can be a huge task and headache at times.  I would love to see what you have though.   I don't know if it will help but i have a paper that was sent to me by Sean Hutchinson on Dr. Pierce's methods.  have some great stuff in it.  If you like just drop me a message with your email and i will send it over.   James

[Patrick Bateman]

12 week o-lifting routine?

I think you are over programming. A 12 week periodised scheme is for people who are fully commited to o-lifting as their only sport, and have been lifting for a couple/few years and are squatting in the 400+lb range.

I think you should do something a lot simpler, especially if their goals are broader and not o-lifting specific.
Also, how long have these people been lifting, and how old? Are they back squatting above 130-140kg.

If they in their mid-late teens, and squatting less than 140kg, i would have them squatting, benching, pressing, and deads, and how a power clean or power snatch as their explosive o-lift movement.

Take a look at starting strength by mark rippetoe

[Andy Dick]

There are many factors that work into it being a 12 week program.  All students (age range are high school students) that use our weight room need to be on a program generated by us.  The offseason programs are broken down into sport seasons (spring being 12 weeks).  It is olympic in nature because the main focus is on the lifts but also incorporating other lifts as well.  In Wisconsin some of us are putting together a few non-sanctioned meets in the spring time to make a sort of a season.  The problem is with powerlifting being so big here the best time to get kids to lift is following that season (winter).  Plus weightlifting is very small here as a result.  Many factors are involved in this being an issue but we will not go into that much here.

Many of the lifters are football players and the next demographic basketball followed with a few volleyball players.  So for many of them their first off season is in the spring.  Powerlifting here in Wisconsin follows a similar non-sanctioned meet system and it attracts a lot of kids because all they pay is a meet fee unless they go to the state meet (then they must be USAPL).  The problem we run into is the state meet for oly lifting is in late march here so there is no way we can really get kids ready for it unless they are a returner.  Our returners are mainly powerlifters so we are stuck in a rut.  Since I am not the head strength coach either (he was an ex-powerlifter and the powerlifting team is his baby) we have to work around powerlifting.

Now this program obviously is not set in stone as you will see.  Weights are dictated by me on a regular basis and based on ability.  Also, exercises are also dependent on ability level.  For example you will see on same days “snatch movement_______.”  This allows me to dictate what the kids do.  A new kid will mainly do a jump shrug to work triple extension.  A more advanced kid can do cleans.  Being many of the kids on the team are football/powerlifters they do have very strong and good squats.  We focus very much on good solid squats.  Also, some of the returners have strong deep squats as well.  So I have something to work with. 

It will make more sense once you have a chance to see the program.  I would say it is more basic in nature as well.

[Sean Hutchinson]

12 week o-lifting routine?

I think you are over programming. A 12 week periodised scheme is for people who are fully commited to o-lifting as their only sport, and have been lifting for a couple/few years and are squatting in the 400+lb range.

I think you should do something a lot simpler, especially if their goals are broader and not o-lifting specific.
Also, how long have these people been lifting, and how old? Are they back squatting above 130-140kg.

If they in their mid-late teens, and squatting less than 140kg, i would have them squatting, benching, pressing, and deads, and how a power clean or power snatch as their explosive o-lift movement.

Take a look at starting strength by mark rippetoe

Over-programming? Lol...I don't think any coach on this planet that knows anything about strength training and periodization would agree with you that you must be an elite lifter to perform 12 week training cycles. We have periodized programs for all the sports at our school and also do programming for golfers, baseball, football, and soccer players ranging from 10-14 years of age and they have all had great improvements in strength from these workouts. Obviously there is an age where you can start loading up the weights but still there is nothing wrong with periodization for other sports and skill levels. Every sport has an off season where athletes should get stronger and during the season they still have to maintain strength and power.

[Patrick Bateman]

Over-programming? Lol...I don't think any coach on this planet that knows anything about strength training and periodization would agree with you that you must be an elite lifter to perform 12 week training cycles. We have periodized programs for all the sports at our school and also do programming for golfers, baseball, football, and soccer players ranging from 10-14 years of age and they have all had great improvements in strength from these workouts. Obviously there is an age where you can start loading up the weights but still there is nothing wrong with periodization for other sports and skill levels. Every sport has an off season where athletes should get stronger and during the season they still have to maintain strength and power.

I think it is this logic that is causing  the usa to lag behind in strength sports and olympic lifting. I think you are blindly following the 'experts', without giving this subject any thought whatsoever.

Have you ever asked youself what is the actual purpose of periodisation, and why some athletes need it?

Because mathematically speaking, following a simple Linear Progression model where 2.5kg is added to a squat every work out, 3 times a week, will add 30kg to a squat a month.

I don't know of any periodised cycle that can add that much weight to a squat.

The only time where this model doesn't work is when the recovering capacity is exceeded by the heavy weight, and so a 'light' phase is required for recovery. But by definition, if this the case they are not a novice lifter, by virue of the fact the weight is heavy and a periodisation is required. For a Novice lifter, a day break is enough recovery time or a 'day lifting/day break' is the 2 day periodised cycle, with a 2 day break at the end of the week.

Most genetically average novice late teen lifters can follow a linear progression, taking their squat to around 130kg, bench to about 100kg, press to about 60kg , All for 3 sets of 5. Deadlift to about 160kg for 1 set of 5, and power clean to about 100kg for 1-3, and be able to do 10-20 bodyweight chins. All in about 5 months/20 weeks, with only 3 sessions of gym a week.

why over complicate it, when you can make gains like that?
And may i add, a rough peroid (due to illness, lack of focus, exams etc etc) of only a week (which is very common) could completely throw out a 12 week cycle to the point of it being useless.

At the same time they have a nice broad range of power and strength movements that will allow them to perform in their sports better.

[Jesster]

As far as what I have seen, periodization has the edge. Sure, I think people will make fine gains without it, and for most cases outside weightlifting, powerlifting, gymnastic, and other strength sport, it will be good enough. I think we all know a difference of 5 Kg on the squat, or 10 Kg on the bench isn't going to be the be all and end all of a football or basketball player. But i suspect for a sportsman (weightlifter, powerlifter, gymnast, etc.) who is highly dependent on strength being the difference between places in a competition, it is probably a wise choice to find a better way than simply working hard.

[Sean Hutchinson]

"I think it is this logic that is causing  the usa to lag behind in strength sports and olympic lifting. I think you are blindly following the 'experts', without giving this subject any thought whatsoever."

If you want to look at it that way then yes I am blindly following the "expert" also known as Kyle Pierce who is one of the leading researchers on strength training in the world.

"Have you ever asked youself what is the actual purpose of periodisation, and why some athletes need it?"

Yes I have. Here's a definition just incase you misunderstood what it was. "Periodization is an organized approach to training that involves progressive cycling of various aspects of a training program during a specific period of time. It is a way of alternating training to its peak during season." Need I say more??

"Because mathematically speaking, following a simple Linear Progression model where 2.5kg is added to a squat every work out, 3 times a week, will add 30kg to a squat a month."

Show me one case where this is true, especially up to an elite level in sports competition. It sounds great in theory but there is no science backing this theory. Obviously a beginner will improve alot at first no matter what he or she does as long as they are overloading the muscles.

"I don't know of any periodised cycle that can add that much weight to a squat."

I have been training under kyle for almost 5 years now and have moved my squat from 160 for a single to 200kg( took 3 years) without any added body weight. I'd say that's a good sign of improvement. Look at any lifter at our gym and the first thing will tell you is they have gotten alot stronger on our program.

"The only time where this model doesn't work is when the recovering capacity is exceeded by the heavy weight, and so a 'light' phase is required for recovery. But by definition, if this the case they are not a novice lifter, by virue of the fact the weight is heavy and a periodisation is required. For a Novice lifter, a day break is enough recovery time or a 'day lifting/day break' is the 2 day periodised cycle, with a 2 day break at the end of the week."

Exactly which is why people follow periodized programs because you can't keep over training and expect to make gains. There is a science and reason to the madness of weightlifting.

"Most genetically average novice late teen lifters can follow a linear progression, taking their squat to around 130kg, bench to about 100kg, press to about 60kg , All for 3 sets of 5. Deadlift to about 160kg for 1 set of 5, and power clean to about 100kg for 1-3, and be able to do 10-20 bodyweight chins. All in about 5 months/20 weeks, with only 3 sessions of gym a week."

They could also do a periodized program and get the same results or better.

"why over complicate it, when you can make gains like that?
And may i add, a rough peroid (due to illness, lack of focus, exams etc etc) of only a week (which is very common) could completely throw out a 12 week cycle to the point of it being useless."

If it was really that simple everybody in the world would do that. But we live in the real world so it's just not going to happen that way. There's always a bad week in training. Most good programs will have you take a few light or down weeks in between. If you have a sick week go ahead and call that your down week. Obviously if your sick or stressed on any program it can't have negative effects on your training.