Topic: Weightlifting progress and training programs

[7thLifter]

Hey everyone. I'm new here on these forums, and I come with a few questions. I don't wanna waste anyone's time, so here I go right away! My questions are about weightlifting progress and training programs.

I got a friend that trains olympic weightlifting (I train, too). He's been training for a year and 8 months or so. He weighs 130 kg (286 lbs), and his maximum snatch is 147,5 kg (324 lbs), his maximum clean and jerk is 175 kg (385 lbs).

I have trained weightlifting for about a year and 2 months. I weigh 84.5 kg (186 lbs), my maximum snatch is 100 kg (220,5 lbs), and my maximum clean and jerk is 130 kg (286 lbs). Now the first question is about training programs. My coach gives me training programs on a weekly basis. They contain 4-6 disciplines, mainly consisting of the snatch, C&J, front and back squat, overhead presses, good mornings, snatch pulls, C&J pulls, you know, the usual weightlifting exercises. I train 5 times a week, 4 hard training session and one easy one, with 2 days rest.

My friend trains on his own, and he refused to be coached by the guy who coaches me (he is the only coach). We're both beginners, and this guy has his own training methods, like doing the snatch for 1-1,5 hours every other training, while doing the same with the C&J every other day as well (in other words, monday snatch, tuesday C&J, rinse and repeat). He always goes for the maximum possible weight every day, be it for the snatch, C&J, front or back squat, good morning, whatever. It's almost always the maximum possible weight. He never took any rest at all, for like years now (we used to do a little powerlifting together but nothing serious, we are both perfectly capable of performing the olympic lifts, so no worries there). He does the main lifts for an hour or more, and has like maybe 15 attempts at maximum weight when he is trying to break a record, or maybe 25-30+ attempts on around 90% of his max. He trains 5 days a week, and has no easy days, it's always hard training.

Now, my coach tells me that sooner or later, my friend will stop having progress, and that he will "burn out" (not be able to train properly anymore). However it seems to me that my training programs aren't exactly all too good, and my friend is having better progress than me with his own methods than I am having with the program my coach gives me on a weekly basis. My coach says that this kind of training is too much stress for him, and he'll "break" sooner or later.

Now my question is, is all of this true? Or is my friend right doing it the way he does?

Also, another question - What would you say about his progress in 1 year and 8 months vs. my progress in 1 year and 2 months? Don't get me wrong, we aren't competing against each other, but I do wanna make some better progress myself. OR should I just do what my coach tells me?

Thanks everyone. Hopefully I'll get some good answers, since I am really in need of some right now.

[powergirl300]

Alot of coaches will put everyone on the same program, that program may work for one person but might not be for you. Some peoples bodies can handle more stress and build faster in a high stress enviroment and not have any problems ever, while others their bodies would give in. Plus all our brains are wired differently your brain may want to build your legs more or your upper body or etc and can effect how much you improve in weightlifting too. for your weight class and his you guys are pretty much equal hes like 100lbs bigger than you. your right where you need to be. after about 2 or 3 years you may not see huge improvments anymore, the way i train i push my bodie too its limits ive been almost training 3 years now and i still improve 20 or 30lbs a year on my lifts and my techniqe is very good. I train close to almost like your friend 5 days a week sometimes 2wice a day  pushing my bodie 90% or more just under 100%. So what your coach is saying about your friend you may not find out the answer untill a few years down the road. Few years pass and hes still improveing hes doing what is best for him.

[7thLifter]

I could handle a ton more stress than what the program I am on now requires. A LOT more. I've never really any problems handling stress really, I do feel like I could do more, but my coach tells me to stick with this. And I know everyone is wired differently.

Still what you say about my friend and me, we aren't exactly, equal, his sinclair total is around maybe 310 on a good competition, while mine is around 260 perhaps. So that's not really equal :)

I'm just really curious as to whether my coach was right or wrong. Even though my friend refused to listen to my coach and started training on his own, he's having good results, whereas I would like my results to get better soon.

[Matt Erdman]

First of all we can't comment on your progress because you never said where you started at. If you were doing 100 and 130 a year ago then your progress sucks. If you were doing 70 and 90 a year ago your progress is excellent.

Second, you can't compare your progress to someone else's. There are far more variables than just training and some may be out of your control.

Not everyone responds the same way. If your friend has been doing what he has been doing for a year now, then clearly he isn't going to burn out, but you may. I know I would.

Again you need to define what progress actually is, and if it really is poor, then you need to discuss with your coach the kinds of training variations that you can experiment with. If your progress is good, then you need to be patient and let your coach do his thing.

[7thLifter]

First of all we can't comment on your progress because you never said where you started at. If you were doing 100 and 130 a year ago then your progress sucks. If you were doing 70 and 90 a year ago your progress is excellent.

Second, you can't compare your progress to someone else's. There are far more variables than just training and some may be out of your control.

Not everyone responds the same way. If your friend has been doing what he has been doing for a year now, then clearly he isn't going to burn out, but you may. I know I would.

Again you need to define what progress actually is, and if it really is poor, then you need to discuss with your coach the kinds of training variations that you can experiment with. If your progress is good, then you need to be patient and let your coach do his thing.

Indeed. I started at 60 kg snatch, and 80 kg C&J. In a year, my snatch improved by 40 kg, and my C&J has improved by 50 kg. Right now, my training is down to something like a year and maybe 3 months or so, and I have not had any progress the last 3 months. I did take a 2 week break from training (my coach told me to take 2 weeks rest). Since then, I have not made progress, and it's been 3 months or so.

I know I can't compare my progress to someone else's. However, my coach said that the kind of training my friend does will not be good for him, but it would appear he was wrong. Or maybe he wasn't, time will tell. But if he was wrong about him, he may be wrong about me, and my training too.

Thanks for your reply.

[powergirl300]

wellthis isnt a flat out guess not saying how i came up with this haha but if your friend lost 100lbs his clean and jerk would prob drop to 300 and ur at 286 not a huge difference to me anyways plus not for a new weightlifter. but he has like 6 months on you so youimprove 15 lbs in 6 months your right where he is. 

[Jim Hooper]

7th -
Before you can start exploring and making good decisions on changing your training, you should understand the plan and rationale from your coach - assuming there is a plan and rationale for what you are doing.  The first questions aren't really whether you should be doing what your friend is doing, and whether your coach thinks your friend will keep improving, but rather what HIS plan is for YOU to improve.

You're coach is training you in a (more or less) Soviet-style system.  Your friend is training in a very different (more or less Bulgarian) system.  Both systems, and many others, work very well if they are applied well.   Both of them go nowhere if they are misapplied.  Some lifters do better on one than the other.  Some lifters do well on either one.  Some don't on either one.  What's clear already is that you have good potential to get significantly better (100/130 in your first year is terrific).  What's not clear is whether your training is a good application of that system to you, and whether you should make any change.  Suggestions to sort that out:

What happens when you put 101/131 on the bar?  How many times have you attempted those weights in the past three months?   If you haven't made many attempts, you don't truly know whether you are stalled or not (at least, not yet).  If you are lifting 90% of those numbers today with better technique and more consistently than you were lifting 100/130 three months ago, that's not really a stall at all - you are getting better at things that will sustain your progress once you eventually work back up through the former PRs.  That may well be the plan, and its one way (though not the only way) to improve long term.

Are your results in the various other lifts you are doing (squats, pulls, presses, GMs) also stalled, or are they going up (or getting easier)? 

Is there any difference in your technique, nutrition, or recovery during the past three months, as compared with that first year?

You need to have a talk with your coach, and ask the right kinds of questions - posed as relevant questions, not complaints or criticisms.  What does your coach say about why you are stalled this early, this long, early in the second year of your training? ("Coach, why do you think I'm not getting better?")  What's his plan to get your results moving up again?  ("Coach, what's our plan to bust out of this plateau?")  When does he expect that you will do 102/132.5?   ("What can we do do get me to the next PR? What date are we working toward?") Have a serious discussion - he may have answers. 

[7thLifter]

Hooper, thanks for your reply!

I have not attempted any C&J-s at 130 kg for 3 months now because I am having problems even with 120 kg at this time. Ever since I took the 2 weeks rest my coach told me to take, my C&J has not been as good as 3 months ago. My snatch, however, has improved! I am now lifting with much better consistency and technique than 3 months ago. So yeah, my C&J has gotten worse and my snatch better. I have not made any attempts to establish new PR-s ever since I came back from the 2 weeks break some 3 months or so. I'll be honest, I think the 2 weeks rest gimped me in terms of the C&J, while my snatch has gotten quite better. My front squat is more or less where it should be, whereas my back squat isn't (180 kg max, now it's more like 165...). Other lifts are good.

My friend has been making very good progress and I have not broken any PR-s, which leads me to question the 2 weeks break I took.

My nutrition is more or less the same, I do eat and rest a lot, no worries there. Thanks for your advice, I'll talk to my coach when I get the time, and the chance to do so, and ask him a few questions.