Topic: A few questions from a beginner.

[Albert B. Gonzalez]

alright chuck this is going nowhere. i mean who are we trying to convince here ourselves? lets end this thread on a high note
and wish eachother good luck afterall we're both after the same goal are we not? good luck chuck.

[Chuck Lopez]

to most people training style is like a religion very difficult to get people to try different things with an open mind, yes we're both after the same thing I'm saying there are better methods out there than others and those better methods are not the same for everybody

bateman - it doesn't take genetics to train like the bulgarians, the russians, or the chinese, to acquire their level of performance probably but the pros are humans too they get tired, hungry, injured, and they're gonna die just like the rest of us, there's no special routine that's only for genetic freaks and novices/intermediates can learn from training at least a little like the pros, what the ones that are winning are doing SHOULD have a bearing at the very least provoke some thought; I find it sickeningly stupid when for an example to demonstrate what I'm talking about I show poeple who are anti-pulling videos of elite lifters doing pulls and then they say their elites they can benefit from it might as well not train at all since only elites can benefit from it

[Albert B. Gonzalez]

yea i find it sickeningly stupid when you show vidoes of pulls too.

[Patrick Bateman]

bateman - it doesn't take genetics to train like the bulgarians, the russians, or the chinese, to acquire their level of performance probably but the pros are humans too they get tired, hungry, injured, and they're gonna die just like the rest of us, there's no special routine that's only for genetic freaks and novices/intermediates can learn from training at least a little like the pros, what the ones that are winning are doing SHOULD have a bearing at the very least provoke some thought; I find it sickeningly stupid when for an example to demonstrate what I'm talking about I show poeple who are anti-pulling videos of elite lifters doing pulls and then they say their elites they can benefit from it might as well not train at all since only elites can benefit from it

That is exactly the opposite of what i am saying.

I AM saying that those routines ARE for advanced lifters who ARE genetic freaks.

I AM saying that when you have a population of a billion, and a lot of that population are practising a sport. The cream of the crop rises to the top. And there needs catered for very specifically, because they are the ones who are going to get the medals, and everyone else is irrlevent.

You only have to look at some of weightlifters vertical jumps to realise that they are genetic freaks. Boevski could do 40" vertical jumps on command. This really isn't 'normal' genetic behavior.
Reza can do a back flip. Iran scouts for weightlifting according to jumping ability. This isn't some weird traditional thing - they are looking for the right genetics.

Compare that to the rest of us in this forum. If you are like most of us, you probably have a moderately good VJ, after about 6 months of o-lifting you probably added 4" or so to it, that is probably around the max height you will ever jump.

This isn't such an extreme comment. It is synonamous with a lot of things in life. Take academia for example - Every once in a while you get a kid who gets a medical degree at the age of 9 or whatever. Why? because he is gentically gifted.
Does the average person after seeing these freaky kids on oprah or whatever then decide to teach their children surgery? No. Why? because we appreciate that they are genetic freaks - which is why they are on oprah. For some reason this simple logic is never extended to weightlifting.

Can you even tell me what genes Bulgarians have that American don't, or what the supposed difference is? No.

I don't think you have understood what i am saying.

I am NOT saying that bulgaria has superman genes, that america doesn't have.

I am saying that american (...and uk too) genetic talent (potential weightlifting talent) gets massaged in other sports, probably because they offer more money and glamour. I suspect that all the potential genetic weightlifting talent is in american footballers etc and  track and field athletes.

And i suspect, if these athletes had been performing o-lifts to the point where they are advanced in them, they they would probably benefit from a bulgarian/russian etc etc elite system.

An example of this is a triple jumper we had in the uk called jonathan edwards. He clean and jerked 155kg at 75kg bodyweight at 6ft 1" tall. He didn't perform any kind of squats at all, just did a clean a jerks 3 times a week. This is a perfect example of genetic talent that has be usurped by a different sport.

[Chuck Lopez]

I'm not saying there aren't genetic freaks out there, however you would make progress training the way the chinese, bulgarians, and russians do, your results will not be as good because your natural ceiling is lower than theirs but you can still make progress doing what they do

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Sounds like you are saying weightlifting is multi-factorial. I agree completely.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'm not saying there aren't genetic freaks out there, however you would make progress training the way the chinese, bulgarians, and russians do, your results will not be as good because your natural ceiling is lower than theirs but you can still make progress doing what they do

And what i am saying is that the progress made by doing strength lifting is probably greater then the progress made by using an elite system, for a novice with ordinary genetics.