Topic: Relationship of squats to clean & jerk

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Arden,

I agree completely with your application of the research. The front squat is slightly more specific, and this slightness could be very, very important to a powerlifter trying to convert who lacks national level/adequate technique. They should indeed, IMO, focus on the front squat- at least until they are fully competent in the exercise. At that point, it just doesn't matter.

[Judas]

Thanks Ross. As for what it means, i'll take it to mean that i need to clean a LOT more, bring up my front squat a bit, and make what i can do reps and from the hang in snatch actually carry over to my full snatch 1RM. I'm actually a lot closer to being 'good' according to this formula than i'd thought. Actually, the second i start actually doing more front squats they'll go up, so my back/front ratio is probably normal by now too. I was really focusing on fronts only a while back, and i just got to a point where i clearly ran out ov leg power, i could hold 10+kg over my max in perfect bottom position, i couldn't push it back up. So i've been blasting the back squats. Both should be well up by now. I never really max them out.

And i'd be surprised if Dolega, Klokov or Aramnau could back squat 800lbs. In the 6-700's, sure, but 800's i would like to see. Even the supers that snatch 200+ i wonder. Some, sure, but not all. I wish someone here could PROVE me wrong, i love to see the massive squats.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Well, take a look at Shane. He back squated around 1000lbs and still didn't snatch 200. Which tells us what? Maybe his squats were in advance of his technical abilities? Would that make sense given his late entry in to weightlifting? Anyway, when the data comes out, you can see all the lifters squats on the line and it should answer your questions.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

I think there is always going to exceptions.  And I don't think there's anyway Shane could have squatted 1000 raw.  I bet he could have squatted around 8 raw.  Brian Siders, a squatter of comparable stature and make up of Shane (drug tested/life time drug free), did 840 or 860 at a Raw meet.  That's the biggest Raw Squat I've ever heard mentioned. 

I don't think any elite 105s could squat 8.  7s maybe, but the skill level of the ones mentioned by Judas is exceptional.  That exceptional skill, if not perfection, IMO allows them to be the exception on the absolute strength. 

Absolute strength helps immensely.  But lack of skill makes absolute strength worthless or worth less.  I speak of that with my own lifts.  Granted I'm better now than I was this time last year, but i've got a long way to go.  The sad and sick thing about my personality is that I see that as a challenge that I will strive to overcome.  I enjoy those journeys.

All the best,
 Arden

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Well, if Shane could "only" squat 800 raw, then that fits him even tighter to the line. He was a subject and did fit the line but of course his actual numbers are confidential.

As I said, I expected to run in to 'faith' on this matter. I think there are coaches out there who preach weightlifting is highly complex because they feel it serves their personal interest. They want dependence. I won't debate it further as it is pointless. Hopefully Dr. Fry will publish it soon.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Completely agree with you Chris.  Completely agree with you.  I sincerely appreciate that you went to the effort to create this program.  That's awesome.  And, for me, it gives me and understanding of what I need to work upon in order to continue to improve.  And, for that alone, I am extremely thankful. 

And just so it's clear, an 800 pound raw squat is ungodly.  As is a 1000 pounded singly ply suited and knee wrapped squat. Shane is and was a very impressive elite strength athlete.

All the best,
 Arden

Well, if Shane could "only" squat 800 raw, then that fits him even tighter to the line. He was a subject and did fit the line but of course his actual numbers are confidential.

As I said, I expected to run in to 'faith' on this matter. I think there are coaches out there who preach weightlifting is highly complex because they feel it serves their personal interest. They want dependence. I won't debate it further as it is pointless. Hopefully Dr. Fry will publish it soon.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Cool beans. Just to be clear, I didn't think you were slamming Shane. Its just funny to talk about an 800lb raw squat as low....

Cheers

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Cool beans. Just to be clear, I didn't think you were slamming Shane. Its just funny to talk about an 800lb raw squat as low....

Cheers

And therein lies the reason I wanted to be perfectly clear.   

All the best,
 Arden