Topic: First pull in the Snatch - thinking of cues

[Patrick Bateman]

Hello All;
  I'm having a major disconnect with my first pull in the snatch.  I know what I need to do, but i'm having a hard time forcing myself to do it.  I'm really cutting the first pull short and never getting my shins vertical before I scoop and go into the 2nd pull.

  I know I need to do the following:
1) hammies should be stretched;
2) Butt/tailbone should be reaching back and up;
3) Chest/shoulders/ should be stretched forward of the bar and up...chin and tailbone as far apart as possible.

And then I drivie my heels into the floor until the bar passes the knees.

But is there anything else the rest of you think about when you're concentrating on that first pull?

There's a great phot of Melanie Roach on the USAW site where her toes are literally off the ground throughout the first pull.  I sooo wish I could do that.

Any thoughts or input?

Thanks in advance.

All the best,
 Arden

I also had problems with my first pull, and as a result my second pull also suffered, and as a result the low thigh brush that you and i used to suffer from.

I have found a nice foolproof way of making my starting position for the snatch and clean perfect, and as a result most of the second pull issues resolve automatically.

Here is the guide for a good starting position/1st pull:

-When standing over the bar, the bar should be directly over the MIDDLE of the foot. Have someone stand sideways on, and tell you when your foot is cut in half by the bar. Look down at your shoes, and make note as to the positioning of the bar in relation to your shoelaces on your shoes. This will allow you to get the bar over mid foot everytime, for every lift.

Don't roll the bar back or forward. Keep it where it is.

-Bend over and take your clean/snatch grip whilst not moving the bar, try and have your elbows pointing out.

-Now arch/tighten your back/big chest until your shin/socks are touching your bar.

This is perfect position to begin your pull. You should be in a position where the bar is over mid foot, your shin is touching the bar, your back is rigid and arched, and your shoulders are in front of the bar, and the bar is directly below your scapula/armpit area.

To begin the first pull, pick your toes up in your shoes, and drive your heels into the ground, and slide the bar up your shins slowly (i often during warm ups pull as slow as possible - it makes it easier to hit the jumping point.)

To work out your jumping point, stand up straight with an empty, arch your back. Unlock your knees, and slide the bar down your thighs  by throwing your ass back until you you feel tightness in the hamstrings. you should be somewhere around mid thigh. this is the jumping point. your 1st pull ends where the bar touches here, and it time to explode.

If your jumping point is low, try arching your back harder, and straightening your knees a bit more, but not locking.

Hope that helps!

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Wow!!! Patrick this is awesome advice.  Thanks so much for taking the time.  I implement some slow mo RDL with exaggerated extension to try and get this down tonight.  I think it help with my hip issue.  I also did exactly as you wrote with the bar in the middle of the foot - that is the first time I can recall seeing that.  I've got to find a way to pull the bar into me as I'm noticing that as soon as I "lift off" I'm letting the darn bar travel forward a bit, then back into my body as I get above the knees.

Bad, I know.   But at least now, I can se it and I'm conscience of it.  That's the first step, I reckon.

Thanks again. I'm a complete novice and a work in progress.  One step at a time.

All the best,
 Arden

Hello All;
  I'm having a major disconnect with my first pull in the snatch.  I know what I need to do, but i'm having a hard time forcing myself to do it.  I'm really cutting the first pull short and never getting my shins vertical before I scoop and go into the 2nd pull.

  I know I need to do the following:
1) hammies should be stretched;
2) Butt/tailbone should be reaching back and up;
3) Chest/shoulders/ should be stretched forward of the bar and up...chin and tailbone as far apart as possible.

And then I drivie my heels into the floor until the bar passes the knees.

But is there anything else the rest of you think about when you're concentrating on that first pull?

There's a great phot of Melanie Roach on the USAW site where her toes are literally off the ground throughout the first pull.  I sooo wish I could do that.

Any thoughts or input?

Thanks in advance.

All the best,
 Arden

I also had problems with my first pull, and as a result my second pull also suffered, and as a result the low thigh brush that you and i used to suffer from.

I have found a nice foolproof way of making my starting position for the snatch and clean perfect, and as a result most of the second pull issues resolve automatically.

Here is the guide for a good starting position/1st pull:

-When standing over the bar, the bar should be directly over the MIDDLE of the foot. Have someone stand sideways on, and tell you when your foot is cut in half by the bar. Look down at your shoes, and make note as to the positioning of the bar in relation to your shoelaces on your shoes. This will allow you to get the bar over mid foot everytime, for every lift.

Don't roll the bar back or forward. Keep it where it is.

-Bend over and take your clean/snatch grip whilst not moving the bar, try and have your elbows pointing out.

-Now arch/tighten your back/big chest until your shin/socks are touching your bar.

This is perfect position to begin your pull. You should be in a position where the bar is over mid foot, your shin is touching the bar, your back is rigid and arched, and your shoulders are in front of the bar, and the bar is directly below your scapula/armpit area.

To begin the first pull, pick your toes up in your shoes, and drive your heels into the ground, and slide the bar up your shins slowly (i often during warm ups pull as slow as possible - it makes it easier to hit the jumping point.)

To work out your jumping point, stand up straight with an empty, arch your back. Unlock your knees, and slide the bar down your thighs  by throwing your ass back until you you feel tightness in the hamstrings. you should be somewhere around mid thigh. this is the jumping point. your 1st pull ends where the bar touches here, and it time to explode.

If your jumping point is low, try arching your back harder, and straightening your knees a bit more, but not locking.

Hope that helps!

[Patrick Bateman]

Wow!!! Patrick this is awesome advice.  Thanks so much for taking the time.  I implement some slow mo RDL with exaggerated extension to try and get this down tonight.  I think it help with my hip issue.  I also did exactly as you wrote with the bar in the middle of the foot - that is the first time I can recall seeing that.  I've got to find a way to pull the bar into me as I'm noticing that as soon as I "lift off" I'm letting the darn bar travel forward a bit, then back into my body as I get above the knees.

Bad, I know.   But at least now, I can se it and I'm conscience of it.  That's the first step, I reckon.

Thanks again. I'm a complete novice and a work in progress.  One step at a time.

All the best,
 Arden

hmm, I suspect that if the bar is traveling forwards of your shins on lift off, (assuming you did my positioning as i described) it is because you are raising your butt faster then your shoulders.

Don't worry about your 'Butt/tailbone reaching back and up' or 'Chest/shoulders/ should be stretched forward of the bar and up...chin and tailbone as far apart as possible'. people who advocate this normally start the pull with their hips in a very low position, and have a less then vertical 1st pull.

If you positioned yourself as i described - all you have to do is drive your heels into the ground/squat the bar up, until the bar reaches the jumping point. Which on the clean is a few inches above the knee, and on the snatch somewhere around mid-thigh.