Topic: The Nationals, where are we heading?

[Pierre Suter]

My two cents, we have some great athletes, but the only guys who have the potential to make an impact at the senior world level are Vardanian, Farris, and Frye.  Maybe if we had 10 times as many USAW lifters as we currently do, we would have 30 guys with top potential instead of 3.  With those 30 pushing each other, undoubtedly a few would succeed.  Unfortunately, how to expand our membership is beyond me.

[Don Weideman]

No response

The start of a good thread, but I guess everyone "would rather be thought a fool, than to speak and eliminate all doubt"! There, if that
doesn't fire someone up, I don't know what to do.
I love Chris's optimism? Seriously, that's probably his nature, a glass is "half full" kind of guy.  My question is if everything goes the way Chris foresees, where are we? How many slots for 2008? How many "A" sessions are we in? Do we have any chance in our wildest dreams of a medal? This forum isn't about swapping recipes everyone ( bring it  on ladies ). Dare I suggest that even if Chris is right we still don't have any medals or world titles.

Maybe I've eliminated all doubt, set me straight.

[Steve Gough]

Pierre,

The three lifters you mentioned are right up there at the top of any list. But, I couldn't disagree with you more at limiting the list to those three. If for the sake of argument one points out at least a dozen names that have reached fairly good levels with, maybe, less than ideal circumstances, etc that maybe enhancing training, environment, training partner chemistry and shared goals, all under the best leadership we could provide... add to that that sense of urgency, of national need (and let's face it our organization USAWeightlifting definitely has that need ) than just maybe we might find ourselves on a better track, maybe even the right track.

Take for instance Donnie Shankle's 200 kg c&j... with limited time in our sport, with age on his side, with great strength and obvious self-determination, do you think that just maybe that 200 kg may addup to say 230 kgs? maybe better? Do you think it possible? Jeff Wittmer, also with age on his side, great potential, firey determination and ability, pulling in 202.5 weighing in at 89 kgs and coming off of mononucleosis just weeks before, couldn't turn that 202.5 into 220kgs in a relatively short amount of time? I'll leave the example at these two. But there are many more. Am I talking about world records or medals? Who knows? Almost who cares? The level quoted speaks for itself. The point being is it's all about progress, about bettering ourselves, about being on a level with the rest of the world in which we can hold up our heads. And if those lucky ones thus cited reach those goals, do you think they may be motivated, inspired enough to take it to the next step?

We are a nation of individuals... a federation of individuals. We need consensus. This thread, in order to stay alive, needs consensus. Those who may be the ones who represent our country on the international platform will need solid support from our consensus to do the above. We can't pull it off if our every response is "we can't do it." Somewhere along the line we must start believing in ourselves.

[Pierre Suter]

You're right, I shouldn't write everyone off without knowing their individual circumstances.  I guess my point is that recruiting will go a long way.  Probably much further than any change in training programs will.  Personally I don't believe in any magic programs.  We could do everything exactly the same, and with 10 times as many lifters I think we would be a force again.  And I think we can make this happen.  Megan T has some good ideas as does Glenn P, and I think there's a lot of potential in Florida with the C&J/bench contests and guys like Chris L getting into the mix.  And even without all that, if one of the three guys I listed make it to the big time, it could have trickle down effect bringing more people into the sport.

I understand that you, as a coach, are probably more interested in coaching strategies than recruiting strategies, so carry on.  Didn't mean to highjack the thread.

[Don Weideman]

How many of our lifters really dream of being World Champion, winning the gold, setting world records, and believe in their dreams. Right now I
would say one and that's because he has his father to nurture his dreams.
Who can believe in their dreams without some hope and example to stir them. Our athletes need to believe that their talent in our program can take them to the top. If Russia, Bulgaria, Turkey, China, or Iran had our
talent base would they have any men in "A" sessions? I believe they would.
With all due respect, if I was a US international coach I'd be a little embarrassed. Heck, I'm just a plain US citizen and I'm embarrassed.

"There's more to winning than just wanting to!" Ditka

We need a National Will, and don't tell me about the bobsled team again.

[glennpendlay]

i hate to even respond to this, but i will.  anyone who leaves out shankle on any list of those with the talent to make an impact internationally is seriously mistaken.  anyone who believes that only one lifter with a certain father has any dreams of winning gold is mistaken.

i hate to speak for donny, but ill take the chance.  i dont think he would even want to be a weightlifter if he didnt think he could WIN on the international level.  i estimate that it will take him around 190/235 to be competitive in the way he wants.  i think the 190 will be easier than the 235, but thats just my opinion...  but i think he has it in him to do both, and i think he will.  i can tell you one thing for sure, neither donny or me would be at all satisfied with a 182.5/227.5 performance and a 6th or 7th place finish at worlds or anything like that.

now about the consensus thing...  i think someone mentioned that.  i personally dont think we need it, odd as that might sound.  i think we need 5 guys who are willing to die to win.  and yes, i think we need for the future 30,000 lifters in order to find those 5 guys for 2016 and 2020...

i mentioned a camp...  wasnt really talking about an open invitation training camp and "fun week".  i was talking about a do or die couple of weeks with the right people, just a few, people who do have the dream and are willing to pay the price.

i hope i am not opening my mouth when i shouldnt here, but i think donny and jeff wittmer will be training together for a few weeks sometime this summer here in wichita.  there are a couple more kids with potential  who might join in.

talking about this is well and ok.  doing anything is another matter.  one should not assume that a lack of talk means a lack of action.

maybe, just maybe, now is not the time to be trying to build consensus...  but the time for anyone who can to DO SOMETHING, whatever can be done, no matter what anyone else is doing.

USA weightlifting will not, i believe, be rescued by committee.  the turn around will start with some bad, bad dude out there who refuses to lose, who refuses to NOT do what is neccessary to win.  i am not downplaying the desire of all the lifters we have who dont win at worlds, in many of them, there is no lack of desire.  but obviously, the right situation hasnt happened in a while...  the right grouping of desire, talent, and support group.

every coach should be trying like crazy to put together the right formula...  find the right athlete, create the right atmosphere and neccessary support.  be realistic and try to do it.

[Steve Gough]

ditto!!!

[Don Weideman]

Are we dealing with a psychological barrier?
This barrier need only to be overcome by one for many to do the same guickly.Vorobyev used Roger Bannister and the four minute mile as an example of this in his textbook on weightlifting. "The perfecting of physical condition must be indissolubly linked to psychological tempering. Without this harmony you will not attain the heights."
I believe Coach Pendlay is prophetic with when he said,
"the turn around will start with some bad, bad dude out there who refuses to lose"
"The potential champion is differentiated from idle dreamers by the fact that he unshakably believes that he can and must become a champion."