Topic: Catapult Technique vs Triple Extension

[Sjaak Smorenburg]

I think Mr. McCauley has very little understanding of the mechanics of the olympic lifts. " Nothing happens below the hips", "the scoop, or double knee bend is nothing but a cocking of the body to drive the bar up fast" ? Many over-simplifications. I wonder where he sees lifters lift "his" way.

Sjaak

[Chris Ⓥ LeRoux]

I truly feel sorry for anyone that tries to implement this nonsense. I tried to watch the videos but I just can't stand to listen to such ignorance. Right off the bat, he asserts that his technique is superior to Suleymanoglu's. This is the greatest lifter in world history on formula. Not long after, he declares that the lifter's feet will leave the ground to move the feet, but this is in contradiction to the supposed goal of eliminating triple extension- an insane goal.

One might even say spreading this disinformation could be an effective tactic, especially if you could convince your lifter's competitors to embrace it.

[Matt Erdman]

I think I see what he means sometimes, and some of it makes sense. But as mentioned it is over-simplified and contradictory.

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

It seems to me that Chris hit the nail on the head.  He's describing what elite athletes do at or near optimal weights.  Put something lighter in their hands, and you'll likley see more triple extension.  Only some of the training hall videos show the elite using less than optimal weights.  Or at least that's all I've seen.  And in those videos, those elite athletes do power movements or muscle movements with those less than optimal weight.  In one video I recall Dimas doing the equivalent of a muslce clean with nealry 170 kilos, yet his heels left the floor when he got tall with the weight.

I may be speaking out of turn as I'm not as learned as many that have commented, but those are my thoughts.

All the best,
 Arden

[Dave Chiu]

We all get to enjoy throwing in.

I like how this was brought out and chewed over, but I think the best evidence is not in Don's methodology, but in actually examining the full archives now available from '88 and '08.

I see a sea-change in several technical points, and the pulling mode is probably the biggest.  How that is taught and executed are of wide variability, but someone could do a decent graduate thesis just on quantifying the gross differences of then and now.

This has always been a point of interest to me, since I never seemed able to pull the "classic" way.  Once I saw that my way was cousin to where many of the top lifters have trended, it engendered other discoveries that I really value.

It's not the "only" way, but the extent of evolution by a substantial plurality is noteworthy.

I actually see Naim as one of the pioneers of this trend, even w/ his heel lift.  Some of my favorite examples include Natalie Woolfolk-Burgener and Victor Scerbatis.

[Brooke Burkhalter]

We all get to enjoy throwing in.

I like how this was brought out and chewed over, but I think the best evidence is not in Don's methodology, but in actually examining the full archives now available from '88 and '08.

I see a sea-change in several technical points, and the pulling mode is probably the biggest.  How that is taught and executed are of wide variability, but someone could do a decent graduate thesis just on quantifying the gross differences of then and now.

This has always been a point of interest to me, since I never seemed able to pull the "classic" way.  Once I saw that my way was cousin to where many of the top lifters have trended, it engendered other discoveries that I really value.

It's not the "only" way, but the extent of evolution by a substantial plurality is noteworthy.

I actually see Naim as one of the pioneers of this trend, even w/ his heel lift.  Some of my favorite examples include Natalie Woolfolk-Burgener and Victor Scerbatis.

Dave, if you get the chance can you post video of what you call classical technique and what you call catapult technique?

[Patrick Bateman]

Isn't this a prime example of what he means by catapault technique?

Kakhi Kakhiasvili in Sidney 2000

kaxi

Perepetchnov 164 Snatch super slo-mo

Perepetchnov 205kg Clean Super Slow-motion

I mean all the check points are there right?

-Start with hips low
-barely going up onto toes, and feet only just leaving the ground to foot shift so he can squat, rather then pulling the bar up higher
-sling shot under the bar super FAST
-shrugs hard to get UNDER the bar fast, rather then pulling the bar up higher

So why all the contraversy?

From what I can tell, Don McCauley is just teaching people to pull from the ground like kakhi and perepetchenov.

Hardly a bad thing. They did pretty well with it.

Admittidly, it is not considered 'coventional' technique right now.
But maybe this is the next evolution in the sport - he is teaching the art of getting under the bar lighting fast?

I suppose the proof is in the pudding - Are any of Don McCauley's guys good on the american scene (i am not familar with the american scene)?
 I know there are a lot of coaches on this forum, and people who compete, has any one come up against them? And do they end up on the podium often?

The bits i find a bit wierd are:

-starting with the bar AWAY from your shins - Is this normal?
-having shoulders LOOSE - i thought you are supposed to have them tight enough so as transmit the pulling force, but not too tight so because this will inhibit the shrug?

[Chris Ⓥ LeRoux]

Watch the first Kakhi video. The feet jump. This contradicts the theory. No one, in any mainstream technique, ever said one should be trying to jump up high in the air. Claiming that the idea the jump should be minimized is some kind of revolution in technique is bizarre. Further, no mainstream technique in my 24 years of lifting every talked about focusing on height of the bar above all else. We obsolete old-timers have always understood there is an optimal height, which occurs at the moment of full extension, which should also be the moment of peak acceleration.

As for whether anyone but Donald knows anything about lifting, what weights did he ever lift? Did he exceed Suley's lifts, who he claims has inferior technique to his, at ANY bodyweight?