Topic: Catapult Technique vs Triple Extension

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I just have concern with the meaning of words and resent and reject their distortion- in this case, primarily "jump." In terms of the "catapult", I see nothing original in the theory really, just a combination of 2-3 standard doctrines. If people wish to make up a new name for that combination, it doesn't bother me.

[Nick Horton]

Chris, I see your point.  And I sympathize.  Definitions should indeed mean something, and not get too watered down.  I wouldn't go so far as to endorse every last word of Don's nor the way in which he is presenting his information.  But, like you said, it's the new combination of elements, and an emphasis on them as a unit, that makes his ideas in the video interesting.

[Patrick Bateman]

Isn't this a prime example of what he means by catapault technique?

Kakhi Kakhiasvili in Sidney 2000
kaxi

Perepetchnov 164 Snatch super slo-mo
Perepetchnov 205kg Clean Super Slow-motion

I mean all the check points are there right?

-Start with hips low
-barely going up onto toes, and feet only just leaving the ground to foot shift so he can squat, rather then pulling the bar up higher
-sling shot under the bar super FAST
-shrugs hard to get UNDER the bar fast, rather then pulling the bar up higher

So why all the contraversy?

From what I can tell, Don McCauley is just teaching people to pull from the ground like kakhi and perepetchenov.

Hardly a bad thing. They did pretty well with it.

Admittidly, it is not considered 'coventional' technique right now.
But maybe this is the next evolution in the sport - he is teaching the art of getting under the bar lighting fast?

I suppose the proof is in the pudding - Are any of Don McCauley's guys good on the american scene (i am not familar with the american scene)?
 I know there are a lot of coaches on this forum, and people who compete, has any one come up against them? And do they end up on the podium often?

The bits i find a bit wierd are:

-starting with the bar AWAY from your shins - Is this normal?
-having shoulders LOOSE - i thought you are supposed to have them tight enough so as transmit the pulling force, but not too tight so because this will inhibit the shrug?

If you watch 99% of these guys who everyone says start with low hips and pause it when the bar leaves the ground 99% of them are at the same hip height as everyone else, above hips and knees parallel. Some of the Chinese start with lower hips and liftoff with lower hips THEN they let the hips rise faster than the shoulders (ass goes up before shoulders) which puts them back in the same pull position as everyone else.
 
Botev is one who starts with low hips and pretty much stays that way.

It seems to me that Khaki is the only one who lifts the way he does, everyone else seems to extend more INCLUDING Khaki's coach  (Grikurovi) other lifters.

Yup 100% agree. Mark Rippetoe makes this point exactly. Because it is impossible to lift anything more then a warm up weight with hips too low, and when lifters start the pull wioth hips too low they tend to roll over the bar naturally by virtue of the mechanical advantage, and end up lifting the bar from the lowest hip point possible.

I think the actual point is that don is making that you should start the lift with your hips as low as possible, and if you roll over that is fine. I think he is trying to get rid of the hips high type of lift (like a modern powerlifters deadlift) that i think tommy kono advocates, which was done in times of old when the bar was not allowed to touch the legs etc etc.

doesn't perepetchenov have a similar lift? After all he satisfies all the points n the check list. Although they do have different body propotions, so there are slight differences.

SIDE POINT: perepetchenov and kakhi have both retired, is there anyone else on the scene anymore who is as lighting fast under the bar like these guys?

[Jack Dluzen]

 good posting fellow w/e  members ! im glad  i started  the thread on this subject.......... alot of good  and interesting in put from all     

[Philip Middleton]

SIDE POINT: perepetchenov and kakhi have both retired, is there anyone else on the scene anymore who is as lighting fast under the bar like these guys?

I just watched my first perepetchenov video, 08' worlds.

I would say Taner Sagir is comparatively as fast, or quicker? And I've noticed a few lifters @ world level who I would regard as insanely fast under the bar, so I'm sure there are plenty more.

[Dave Chiu]

As for me, I know WHY the things I like in the current evolution are appealing, and have felt the difference.

It IS true that the more hip-boost-flick method does not make for much ankle-ext-foot-hop, but not from TRYING to not do so.  The focus on efficient force transfer makes the hips want a more solid launch pad, and the more thorough action-reaction doesn't allow the feet the air-time.

It's not about PULLING under faster, as much as it's about the boost upward SENDING the lifter under more reactively quick.

Critical thrust ABOVE the crotch (even for Cleans) or at least as high to the hips as the arms will allow is another key point.  Tally up the difference btwn 88 and 08 using the full archives.

The low start is not as critical as it is just a kind of preference for the feeling of pulling into the floor as a prep for pushing away (giving a kind of "rolling start"), allowing the pull to get going w/ more of a bksq trajectory.

Telling ALL I like about it would take hours of shared wkts to do all the demo, and hrs more of vid watching/dissecting, so I guess I'm just teasing here...