Topic: In the clean, I notice elite lifters brush the bar above the groin

[Taylor Chiu]

From what I understand, the brush is the action that causes the reaction of the bar shooting upward/body shooting downward.  Otherwise, the built up tension in the hamstrings/quads has nothing to release into, and you can only get under the bar as quickly as your body can force itself downward.

Here's a video of a guy who appears to use two brushing points, as Chris puts it:

FERNANDO REIS 16 and 17 years

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I disagree there are two brush points in any of these vidoes. But, the assertion that the brush occurs at the top of the thigh between the area just under the unit and above the unit is accurate IMO.

[Dave Almeida]

Kakhiasvilis does not contact very high up because he never truly finishes his pull. He is absurdly strong. I have video of his 235@90 which is a 3/4 view and you can clearly see that he never hits anywhere near Suleymanoglu does.

I still think a higher contact point leads to hyperextension and less use of glutes/hip extension despite what it may look like. However, in the end I would probably mark it down as "personal style" since there have been so many elite international lifters with both styles. I personally prefer the lower bar contact point as I have tried them both.

Bar path is less consistent for me with a higher contact point. I do have long arms though.

[Taylor Chiu]

Wow, Dave!! Do you think you could post that 235@90 by Kahki on YouTube??  I've been dying to see it.

[Dave Chiu]

Awesome video Taylor!!  IF ONLY we had such an excellent study of all the top lifters...

Most of you are not even looking for the VERY deliberate way the lifter is APPLYING himself into the bar from mid thigh thru the pelvic kick that lauches the bar upward and the body downward for BOTH SN and CL.

Here's the deal --

I am a LOT more tuned into this issue than most O-lifters, perhaps even than most elite lifters and coaches.

This is because I spent a couple DECADES wishing I could pop (kick/thrust/etc. "brush" is a very inadequate term) from the high thigh instead of above the crotch.  It was obvious to me from sequence pics (pre-youtube) and what little vid I could get that the standard form of elite lifters (of the 70s and 80s) was to do so, but I just could not force myself to do so when the weights were above 70% for me.

I finally gave up on trying, but then came the summer of '08, the advent of massive video accessibility, and I discovered that MANY top lifters (not just the anomalous style of Reza) were also now going pelvic.

Defining the difference (what is meant by ABOVE): for women it's only a matter of millimeters, but for men it is a matter of inches.  Women tend to have shorter arms compared to their torsos, men have a higher ratio.  There is also a difference btwn individuals, such that my own son does not have my ready ability to go above.  

The Georgians and Turks were early exemplars of this technique, and the Chinese have become the most currently prominent proponents, but even a guy like Kasabiev (who so reminds of KK in so many other ways except splitting instead of PJ-ing) goes below probably because he just couldn't find the effectiveness that KK did going above.

I have re-watched the Beijing video (all 40+hrs, well, 20 once you learn how to skip the btwn time) multiple times, taking note of various technical specifics even as I kept my own scoresheet (really enhances viewing enjoyment) listed in order of first appearance.  

One of the specifics I looked for was WHO POPS PELVIC?:

W53 -- 8 of 9

W58 -- 9/12

W63 -- 11/18

W69 -- 7/9

W75 -- 12/12

W75+ -- 9/11

M56 -- 12/17

M62 -- 8/16

M69 -- 12/27

I apologize for not making as exacting observations of the W48, and misplacing the records of the 77s/85s/94s/105s/Supers.  Anyone who didn't attempt any CJs is not listed.  You may notice a trend w/ the men, but my impression of what I noted for the higher classes is that the proportion kicking above remained high -- probably a solid majority.  One could also study just the medalists, but the larger sample is more indicative.

I also noted things like stance width, pre-squat, grip width, heel rock, etc.  Things have REALLY changed in 20 yrs (I carefully studied the full archive of Seoul that became available here on WE).  My personal technique of going above has been exonerated (I know there's a better term), but I have actually revolutionized my technique w/ several other things my study enlightened me on.

One interesting thing the Chinese are observed doing in some training videos is a Pull w/ two added Top Pops.  They basically catch and re-thrust the bar from the hips -- in my view to reinforce their sense of their key launch point in a way that adds not only power, but also skillful handling of major weight w/in a tight range w/ fine timing.

ttfn!!

[Dave Chiu]

I would also REALLY LOVE to have video of the '92 Games, when KK was at his best (and there were some other awesome former Soviets that I haven't seen since as well).

He actually does what I consider to be the same re-cocking of the back that empowers Kolecki's pulls.

I consider it a mistake to just call these differences of individual style.

Yes, some things work for some which do not so well for others...

BUT, if you actually count the beans, looking for specific changes from '88 to '08, it is clear that there has been an evolution that all who can would be well-advised to learn from.

[Jack]

Most of you are not even looking for the VERY deliberate way the lifter is APPLYING himself into the bar from mid thigh thru the pelvic kick that lauches the bar upward and the body downward for BOTH SN and CL.

Here's the deal --

I am a LOT more tuned into this issue than most O-lifters, perhaps even than most elite lifters and coaches.

This is because I spent a couple DECADES wishing I could pop (kick/thrust/etc. "brush" is a very inadequate term) from the high thigh instead of above the crotch.  It was obvious to me from sequence pics (pre-youtube) and what little vid I could get that the standard form of elite lifters (of the 70s and 80s) was to do so, but I just could not force myself to do so when the weights were above 70% for me.

 I sometimes think  things are being made even more complicated than they already are. Like Chris says, I cannot always grasp what is meant in this thread, and like Shaun mentions, individual body make up, flexibility, or lack of it, limb length, weak or disproportionally strong links in the pulling chain etc. influence things greatly, and how things look. I think we should try for the theoretically best basic technique, and we will arrive at the best technique (possible) in each individual case.

IMO, what moves the bar upward from the point in the pull from just above the knees-on is the reversing of the head/hip lever; the head moving back and the hips moving forward. The more rigid the lever, the more vertical the bar will travel. Also, the closer to the body the bar stays during this phase, the better, for obvious reasons. So, if one would drill this phase of the pull for as much lever rigidity and (longest) bar/thigh contact as possible, you would have the most efficient pull, in principle.

Sjaak

[Dave Almeida]

 I can post the video on my youtube account and make it private until I spoke to who I got it from. I don't know if they wanted me spreading the video all over youtube. Send me a friend request and message saying who you are from WE on youtube and I'll allow you to see it when I get back from training in a little while. I also should be around for the chat discussion @ 5 if it is easier to do it then.

youtube id: bejjeagle