Topic: In the clean, I notice elite lifters brush the bar above the groin

[Patrick Bateman]

Whenever I see guys at the olympics clean, the bar brushes above the groin (that is to say above the 'old chap' ), and very rarely below the groin.

How is this achieved?

When I clean, I experiance one of two things:

(i)I feel the bar brushing above mid-thigh >>>> the bar path tends to be a bit too vertical, and it doesn't rack nice and deeply on the shoulders, and on heavier lifts sometimes the bar falls off my shoulders when in the rack at the bottom.

(ii)I cannot feel the bar brush at all (normally, because I have put extra effort at pulling the bar hard towards my upper abs in the 3rd pull) >>> The bar racks nice and deeply, and it feels very secure and I am able to front squat the bar up nicely due to the secure bar position - my best lifts and PR have come from this.

I suspect (ii) is closer to what the olympic guys do. But I am not feeling the bar brush anywhere. What should I do to fix this?

This brings me on to the second part of question....

I have a suspecion that this issue is all down to how hard you shrug and pull with your arms, and the timing with which you do it. And generally, the clean is limited by what you can rack....And what you can rack is limited by what you can shrug/pull with your arms.

Since all of this is a second/third pull issue...

Is the Full Hang Clean a good way to practice, perfect and strengthen this area?
I don't want to do clean pulls or rack pulls, since I am still a beginner, and want to practice the motion of a clean, and the more cleans I do the better.

If so, when should I do hangs cleans? At the back end of the work out, like any other assistance exercise? Or at the beginning few sets while the weight is light, so when you move on to heavier clean and jerk sets the technique for the 2nd/3rd pull is TIGHT?

All input is welcome!

Many thanks!

[ryankyle]

Join in the chat discussion tomorrow if you can I'm sure it will come up.  Right now what I can say is your thinking about the clean is not correct.  Stop thinking of pulling the bar up or meeting it in a certain spot that will help.

Ryan

[Dave Almeida]

 Most top lifters have bar contact on the upper thighs in the clean. Only very few hit above the groin (Aramnau, Suleymanoglu are two notables) which is typically due to hyperextension of the back. I guess some Chinese lifters have higher contact points, but those that do seem to hyperextend a bit also. The snatch is quite different because of hand spacing which leads almost everyone to have some contact above the groin.

You are probably not using your legs properly throughout the lift if you have no bar contact at all. Also, you don't think of shrugging and pulling with your arms in the lifts that just inhibits the whole process. Legs Legs Legs Legs Legs. Push through the ground the entire lift.

OG beijing 77  SA Jaehyouk  LI Hongli

Compare Li Hongli's bar contact with Sa JaeHyouk's. In my opinion, Sa JaeHyouk has the best clean technique in the world right now. Li Hongli noticeably hyperextends while Sa Jaehyouk gets more glute involvement through using his legs in the proper manner.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

In my opinion, Sa JaeHyouk has the best clean technique in the world right now.

Interesting assertion. Without addressing such specifics, I wonder about generalities. What is the relationship between technique and strength? Can you have great technique without strength?

[Patrick Bateman]

Most top lifters have bar contact on the upper thighs in the clean. Only very few hit above the groin (Aramnau, Suleymanoglu are two notables) which is typically due to hyperextension of the back. I guess some Chinese lifters have higher contact points, but those that do seem to hyperextend a bit also. The snatch is quite different because of hand spacing which leads almost everyone to have some contact above the groin.

You are probably not using your legs properly throughout the lift if you have no bar contact at all. Also, you don't think of shrugging and pulling with your arms in the lifts that just inhibits the whole process. Legs Legs Legs Legs Legs. Push through the ground the entire lift.

I was thinking of mainly of dimas, kakhi, and rezazehdeh as top lifters who all hit above the groin. I know dimas hyperextends a lot. But I thought kakhi and rezazehdeh we considered quite 'text book' and didn't hyperextend? And as a side note I noticed that sagir who hyperextends a lot actually hits his upper thighs.

On closer inspection on kakhi, I notice he hits very high on the thigh and scrapes it up to above his groin. Either way, it is much higher than myself, as I either don't hit at all, or hit  just above mid-thigh. What could be going wrong?

What should I do to improve my legs? If it is any help, I have a clip of me performing a clean and jerk in this thread here:

http://weightliftingexchange.com/smf/index.php?topic=5127.msg20824#msg20824

many thanks!

[Taylor Chiu]

Pretty much all of the top Chinese lifters these days go above the groin, and I believe Sagir does as well.  Sa JaeHyouk's teammate in the 77s goes above.  As to whether it's effective or not, it's hard to argue with the results at the last Olympics.  The number of top lifters who do this is definitely increasing.
 
I've experimented with both methods, and there are advantages to both.  I believe one can deliver more power by going above, since it's a natural fulcrum.  Thus why almost everyone now snatches above (unfortunately, it's quite difficult to clean with your snatch grip).  However, to do so requires either some major back extension, arm bending, widening of the grip, or some rather short arms.  All of which can make going high thigh preferable. 

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I didn't see any of the Chinese lifters brushing any different than me- top of thigh. I honestly do not quite know what above groin even means. Any weight I can clean without brushing the top of the thighs would be a weight I could power clean.

[Taylor Chiu]

What I'm referring to is where the final contact/pop occurs that leads to getting under the bar/sending the bar upwards.  The easiest example I can think of is comparing snatch tech. 30 years ago with today.  Back then, most lifters kicked off their upper thigh/below the crotch, whereas today lifters kick at the height of their hip joint.