Topic: Designing a program using the Starr model

[Pete Chader]

Hey guys, I've been lifting for about 9 months now, with the following weights (Those in the brackets are the maximums I'm working off).

Bodyweight: 93kg
Squat: 120kg (125kg)
Snatch: 72kg (80kg)
C&J: 85kg      (100kg)

Anywho, the program so far is as follows (set x reps):
Monday (85%+)
B/Squats - 4x3
Snatch - 3x3
C&J - 4x2
S/Pulls - 3x3,1x2 (increase by 5kg)
Abs - 2x20

Tuesday (75%-85%)
P/Clean - 3x3
P/Snatch - 3x3
B/Sqt - 3x3
M/Press - 4x3
Chin ups - 3x5

Thursday (85%+)
Snatch - 2x2,1x2 (increase weight on last set)
C&J - 2x2,1x2 (increase weight on last set)
F/Sqt - 4x2
C/Pulls - 3x3,1x2 (increase weight on last set)
Abs - 2x20

Friday (<75%)
Jerk from rack - 4x2
Cleans - 3x3
Snatch - 3x3
Hypers - 3x10 (add weight)
Dips - 3x5

As I can only train on Mon, Tue, Thu and Fri, this type of model suits me rather than the 3 day programs I've seen. One concern that I have is that this program has just too much work and I'll be overtraining rather than progressing e.g. yesterday I "completed" Monday's workout having missed 1 set of Snatches and so many C&J's that I had to turn C&J into P/Clean + Jerk for that day.
My other concern is that I won't be putting weight on the bar or shifting the scales. I realise that the latter is dependent on how much food I eat, but I've been eating 5-6 meals a day for the past 4 months and I've only put on 3kg.
The final thing is the squat. How do I increase this in the current program?

The other option I have is to use the 5x5 Bill Starr program and work on increasing my squat, press, deadlift and body weight until I find a coach.

[leighton richards]

Hi I'll suggest something.
The program looks fine to me, although it is quite a lot of work, you might be able to recover from that much work since you have kept the number of sets low, and the intensity is low on one of the days also.

This program is one of Mark Rippetoes, based upon the "Texas Method" for intermediate lifters.
The basic premise of this program is to make weekly progress, ie each week increase the weight by a small amount.
You have one volume day for each lift (which provides the stimulus for getting stronger), one recovery (or light day), and one testing day where you keep the volume very low but go to near your max.

Volume for Snatch or Clean & Jerk would be 5 sets of 2 or 4 sets of 3 at about 80% 1RM.
On the light day half the volume and reduce the weight by 10%.

Monday: Snatch volume, squat 1s or 2s, press, chins

Tuesday: Clean & Jerk volume, snatch light, front squat

Thursday: Snatch medium, clean medium, jerk from rack, bench

Friday: Snatch and Clean & Jerk heavy singles, squat 5s, deadlift 5s/RDLs

[Pete Chader]

Thanks for your help leighton, but I've decided to just go with the Bill Starr 5x5 program:

Monday
Squat 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Barbell Row 5x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups

Wednesday
Squat 4x5
First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
Incline or Military 4x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 4x5
Ramping weight to top set of 5
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups

Friday
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Barbell Row 4x5, 1x3, 1x8
First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Assistance: 3 sets of weighted dips (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

I'll swap the rows with power cleans and deadlift with high pulls.

If I ever do find a coach then I'll come back with a much stronger base.

Thanks.

[Jim Hooper]

That's simply assinine.

The progression your program envisions is linear.

Of course, if strength gains were linear, everyone would be clean and jerking 500 Kgs in their 10th year, if not sooner. 

Tell me, genius -- how many weeks  do  you think you will actually quintuple what you could only triple the previous week?


Jesus Christ. 

[leighton richards]

That's simply assinine.

The progression your program envisions is linear.

Of course, if strength gains were linear, everyone would be clean and jerking 500 Kgs in their 10th year, if not sooner. 

Tell me, genius -- how many weeks  do  you think you will actually quintuple what you could only triple the previous week?


Jesus Christ. 

If that reply is to me then I think your reaction is a little over the top.
If you start your program on the squat with 90% for 3 singles (on the max day).
You should be able to increase the weight by a small amount every week, when you start to plateau, its time to change the program, or restart from a lower weight again.
Mark Rippetoe has recommended buying small weight plates so you can increase the weight by say 1kg per week.
In that case you should be able to stay on the program for 12 weeks before you plateau.

[leighton richards]

Of course, if strength gains were linear, everyone would be clean and jerking 500 Kgs in their 10th year, if not sooner. 

The program is for intermediate lifters only.
After a certain time on this type of program you will start to plateau and will need to change to a different type of program.
One where you cycle the loads over a series of weeks.

But you did know this and I just caught you on a bad day I hope.

[Pete Chader]

That's simply assinine.

The progression your program envisions is linear.

Of course, if strength gains were linear, everyone would be clean and jerking 500 Kgs in their 10th year, if not sooner. 

Tell me, genius -- how many weeks  do  you think you will actually quintuple what you could only triple the previous week?


Jesus Christ. 

The Bill Starr program has worked for many lifters with higher %1RM than I have, so I'm sure if I eat well and do it properly, my strength will increase.
As for my original post, this is the first time I've made my own program and I thought that posting it here would get me some help. The only text that I have on programming is "Practical Programming" by Rippetoe & Kilgore, so I'm assuming that workout to workout progression applies to novice, weekly to intermediate and monthly to advanced.



PS: Is there a "list" of weightlifting exercises? All I know are snatch, h/snatch, 2 pos. snatch, p/snatch, cleans, h/cleans, p/cleans, c&j, j/f rack, jerk, p/jerk, mil. press, p/press, f/sqt,b/sqt,oh/sqt etc ...

[Pete Chader]

Leighton, this is another program that I wrote up. I'm using the Bill Starr model rather than the texas method (p. 191). Also, I haven't done Bench or DLs/RDLs for some time (I do clean/snatch pulls and presses instead).

Monday 90% - Heavy

Snatch  Work up to max weight and then do 2x1 at 90%
C&J       Work up to max weight and then do 2x1 at 90%
B/Sqt    4x3
Mil. Press 4x4
Abs       2x10 (add weight)

Tuesday 80% - Medium

H/Clean   4x3
P/Snatch 3x3
P/Jerk      3x3
S/Pulls     4x4
Chins       3x5 (add weight)

Thursday 85% - Heavy

Snatch  3x3
C&J       3x3
P/Press  4x4
B/Sqt     4x4
Abs        2x10 (add weight)

Friday 70% - Light

O/H Sqt 4x4
P/Clean  4x3
C/Pulls    4x3
Dips       3x5   (add weight)
Hypers   3x10 (add weight)

So what do you guys think of this one?