Topic: Double-knee bend/scoop

[Imre Zsuga]

Jaswant,

I suggest that you read after former Russian famous scientist's article ie. Vorobyev, Roman, Medvediev, Zhekhov etc. From later age Prof. Baumann, Prof. Lipmann.
These scientists are not resourced for table drawer.

I think you can find these articles on Bud Charniga’s site. (Dynamic-eleiko)

Reason of double knee bend is technical deficiency what is origin from not harmonious (unsynchronized) strength development of legs, hip, lover and upper back muscles.
All those athletes who use double knee bend are finishing earlier sport career because of sensitive S1-L5.

I attached some practical information about elements of body movement's sequence.

Old Coach

[Dave Almeida]

So 99% of lifters are getting back injuries because of this? Unless you define the second phase of the pull in some other way so that it will include almost all lifters.

[Jack]

Reason of double knee bend is technical deficiency what is origin from not harmonious (unsynchronized) strength development of legs, hip, lover and upper back muscles.
All those athletes who use double knee bend are finishing earlier sport career because of sensitive S1-L5.

Hi Imre,

Cool post. Read up I did, as you suggested. But your statement baffles me. Could the S1-L5 troubles be because the current lifting style is more efficient and heavier loads can be used? Maybe the corresponding higher jerk loads are a factor in this. As others have mentioned, (encapsulating); the DNB occurs "naturally" if you lift the bar close to the body, drag it along the thighs and shrug when upright or later. Compared to this alledgedly technically deficient lifting, what would be an technically efficient technique in your view? I've been staring at the charts you provided. Could you explain wich data there is supporting your claim? Thanks Imre,

Sjaak

[Mike Wittmer]

I teach it.  Maybe partly because in my case, I never would have used it unless I was taught, as
I was lifting without it until I came across some guys who told me about it and showed me how to
do it.  I have seen some pick it up naturally, or almost so, while others really struggle with it.

I teach it more as sliding the bar up the thighs with emphasis on shifting into the power or finish pull position.

[Matt Rupiper]

Interesting discussion,

The double-knee bend, from what i've seen is a natural occurrence.  As for a weak/inefficient muscles, I suggest taking the weight away and reevaluating the movement.  Put someone in the RDL position as if the bar has just cleared the knees, and tell them to jump.  The knees will travel forward, then hips and knees extend together.  Is this an inefficiency or just natural. 

I do see the inefficiency side of things....Individuals with instability of the spine tend to move from squat to stand in a knee under hips manner, which is similar to the double knee bend.

Did the double knee bend occur when the lift was actually 'clean' and no touching the body?

Many different theories, all interesting thoughts. 

[Mike Wittmer]

Did the double knee bend occur when the lift was actually 'clean' and no touching the body?

From the old video that I have seen, no.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I teach it more as sliding the bar up the thighs with emphasis on shifting into the power or finish pull position.

Hmm, if that is teaching the double knee bend, I teach it also. I just don't call it the double knee bend and don't focus on telling them to bring the knees forward after the bar passes (because I HATE seeing hitches and kicks).

[Matt Rupiper]

Mike, thanks for the input.

Then that suggests that the double-knee bend is not a result of weakness/inefficiency.  If they could 'clean' without a double knee, where the torque demand on the back was much higher, the double knee bend must be a more efficient technique allowing more weight.  This increase in weight is probably more a culprit in L5-S1 sensitivity.

Chris,

I agree, one mention of the scoop to an athlete results in a mess in technique

Imre,

do you have research showing this L5-S1 issue?