Topic: News: Coach Burgener infuses life into lifting

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

The best way to build up the sport is one at a time. You have started something wonderful here Chris and I thank you for it. I just found it but, already I feel a little bit better that people are coming together and discussing this great sport. As long as we keep coaching, teaching and sharing knowledge and passion with others the sport won't die.

Thanks. I think we face many overwhelming problems but I appreciate your spirit and drive.

Cheers

[Paul LaDuke]

Anyway, I expect a large number of our future competitors at local meets to come from CrossFit.

Dave, I wholeheartedly agree!  I have actually observed this at many of the local meets in my area of PA!  I can understand where Chris is coming from though because the exposure Crossfit brings to the sport of weightlifting will not produce any international lifters in the near future.  So to say Crossfit helps our sport depends on what standard you look at.  If you are just looking at the number of USAW members who compete in the sport, Crossfit helps our sport.  If you look at the USAW's ability to compete on the International level, Crossfit will not have an immediate or direct impact on that. 

I think the exposure by CF to the Olympic lifts are a great thing.  Most CFer's are 20-40 somethings who will be or are parents.  They may raise a kid who has some talent in the sport and their exposure to weightlifting will allow them to recognize this ability and hopefully get them to a coach who can develop that talent.  I am thinking that our sport is on the brink of some great growth.  It will be interesting to see what we will do with that growth!

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Personally, I do not ever evaluate American weightlifting performances versus international competitions but against our performances in our own history since I feel all major international competitions are completely tainted by drugs. It is comparing apples and oranges. Crossfit can't hurt. That is for sure. I just don't think anything is going to turn our sport around except massive doping reform at the international level.

Edit: I would also add that with a couple more years of Obama spending a trillion dollars a week, socializing the free market, and annihilating the stock market, we will be lucky if any lifters can afford to go to any meets in a couple years. And, nevermind the growing threat of the alliance of the socialists and the islamofascists. Yea, I know, borderline off-topic discussion but I only bring it up because I think the results will further hurt weightlifting, and the economy and the war against islamofascism have already played a role in the USAW going broke and the USOC cutting its funding.

[Erik Blekeberg]

I think they should make progressive standards, like once you can get 30 C&J w/ 135 lbs in under 5 min, you need to go w/ 185 to set your new standard.

This completely defeats the purpose of the o lifts. The energy system and muscle recruitment will change when you prolong an activity. That is why you see the form progressively looking worse as the time goes on. After 3 minutes you enter an entirely different energy system (oxidative). You are turning an intense activity that uses the Phosphagen energy system and trains power into a marathon that degrades form and teaches improper movement patterns for the olympic lifts.

Look at big boy here with his pull sequence. Nice use of the arms and a great rounded back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyz8eEgbZ-k

[Andy Dick]

I think with regards to olympic lifting and s&c I find it not as challenging to fit into a program as it seems.  One thing is I work at a high school, and this is where I emphasize off-season lifting as key.  When a season ends I give the kid a week or 2 (usually a week because at this point the kids are on fire to lift and I don't want to prevent them and see that energy die) before I bring them back into the weight room.  When they come back I start them light and work technique.  If they are not in more than one sport we can afford to spend extra time teaching the lifts.  I had the wrestling team only show up for the in-season (except for a few kids on the ball to get better) and all we did was jump shrugs in-season, it took very little time to teach and if I saw a kid pick it up quick I just transitioned them to high pulls and cleans faster.  But those that struggled with the technique I could keep them at jump shrugs and it worked fine.  Then when they come after the season we can get right into working towards cleans faster.

If it is a more than one sport athlete I take a more gradual approach to teaching them.  Some may not agree with this progression, but it has worked well for me.  I start them out on teaching them RDLs.  Once they are good at RDLs I progress them to jump shrugs.  Once this is good, I go to a high pull.  When this is good, I go to hang clean.  (same progression for snatch).  Then I work towards the floor from there.  This way I may not have a kid cleaning in a week but gradually over time I can spend little pieces of their lift times building up to a clean and they don't even know it and it is easy and takes no time really.  I find for many this is progression makes it easy for kids to transition to a clean because you are just varying or adding to what they already know to work into a clean.  It also seems to make sense for a lot of them.  However, kids first priority is their sport and I hope they will know the olympic lifts so if they are interested they can pursue competitions in the future.  Many are not interested in competing because they are more interested in jumping higher or subtracting time off their 40 or whatever to make them ready for their sport.  At the same time for many of these high school athletes I know we have time to get them good at their sport and secretly at oly lifting at the same time.

In-season I keep it basic.  Jump shrugs (unless they know cleans or high pulls already or they seem to be progressing rapidly), squats, RDls, side lunge, abs or MB work on one day.  Push presses, bench, seated rows, lat pulldowns, abs or MB work the other day.  2 days a week because they have a lot on their plate with practice and competitions and thats it.  The coach is happy because they are getting their bench and squats in and I am happy cause they are working towards the oly lifts.

[Dave Chiu]

Sounds good Andy!!

As for sloppy form at the CF games, you'll see non-ideal tech at the Olympics too (in lifting and all other sports).

Should the problems evident in Chemerkin's and Reza Zadeh's lifting discredit the Russian and Iranian systems??

If you look at that CF video, you'll see plenty of good tech along w/ the bad.

Finally, better technique benefits you no matter what energy system you are using, especially at the extremes of strength AND endurance.

In the end, some guys may be able to win w/ non-ideal form due to other physical characteristics, but they WILL NOT last as long or do as much as they could have w/ better form.

[Mike Wittmer]

My son is helping Mike today in St. Louis.  He has over 50 people taking the weekend program, at over $500 per.
They must be doing something right.

[Chuck Lopez]

$500 per!!!! that is rediculous! I knew crossfit gym/programs were expensive but wow!