Topic: News: Coach Burgener infuses life into lifting

[Erik Blekeberg]

Should the problems evident in Chemerkin's and Reza Zadeh's lifting discredit the Russian and Iranian systems??

I've seen a lot of videos of both and while everyone goes through a bad lift now and then, I really don't see the problem with either of their techniques. It has been established that varying lifting styles do work and achieve awesome results. What I am getting at is the complete error in lift mechanics all the way up the kinetic chain.

If you look at that CF video, you'll see plenty of good tech along w/ the bad.

Sure, at the start. I challenge anyone to do 30 clean and jerks with that weight as fast as they can (this means limiting rest time by competition standards) and maintain the same solid technique and form throughout the lift.

Finally, better technique benefits you no matter what energy system you are using, especially at the extremes of strength AND endurance.

I agree but, you are taking a complex activity that requires intense motor learning processes developed over months if not years of training. Fatigue degrades form. This is why conditioning work should be limited to less complex activities like a farmers walk, sled pull etc.

[Mike Wittmer]

$500 per!!!! that is rediculous! I knew crossfit gym/programs were expensive but wow!

Actually, these were people from all over the country taking the course to become certified
as crossfit instructors. 

[Dave Chiu]

Let me be a bit more plain -- Erik, you're wrong.

That doesn't mean everything CF does is as good as it will be over time, but as the saying goes:

It is not wise to make Perfect the enemy of Good.

... especially of VERY, VERY GOOD.

Actually, there are many ways O-lifting competition is not optimal for proving who is best, especially from the standpoint of discovering any given athlete's very best.

O-lifting has become what it is due to the lifts and athletes -- in spite of the strictures of the official sport.

Anyway, back to CF...

They pull in $50K from certifications pretty much every wknd of the year (that's MILLIONS annually) -- the approach is about success (what people want), WHAT A CONCEPT.

People WANT the O-lifts -- CF's success is a testament to the remarkable failure of other methods tried for bringing OL to the prominence it genuinely deserves.

Dave

[Jim Hooper]

Amen Dave.

The singular problem with US weightlifting is its obscurity -- it is utterly unfamiliar and inaccessible to the vast majority of preteens and teenagers.  We have 60,000 girls doing gymnastics, more than a quarter million playing football, etc. -- and maybe a few hundred doing Olympic lifting.  Its where marathoning was before Frank Shorter and Jim Fixx (and others) utterly transformed the culture and made distance running mainstream way back in the early 70s.

The history of the US trend is interesting (to me at least).  Many believe that, at about that same time, the weightlifting world (where bodybuilders and Olympic lifters were often the same people) came to a crossroads.  Bob Hoffman and the York crowd faded, and the Weider brothers ascended.  So today there is a bodybuilding gym or 10 in every town in America, and Olympic lifting is something that 99.999% of Americans see as something foreigners do at the Olympics.

Nothing changes until that obscurity and inaccessibility changes.  Anything that gets people familiar with what a snatch and clean and jerk are is a step in the right direction.   Crossfit, use of Olympic movements in college strength programs, and things like the Florida HS weightlifting program are the kinds of developments that bring at least some chance of increasing exposure to the sport -- if not the participants themselves, maybe they will point their kid or some other kid in this direction. 

[Mike Wittmer]

The whole thing with CrossFit is very interesting.  Jeff told me that Mike Burgener is like
a rock star.  He used about five weightlifters (one was daughter Sage) to help him teach. 
They were all very well received and some local people wanted to know where Jeff trained, etc.

He has 29 (!) weekends scheduled this year and according to their website, most of the upcoming
ones are already sold out.  As mentioned, this is great.  A lot of people will know some technical
aspects about the lifts, people who otherwise, would not.

[Erik Blekeberg]

Let me be a bit more plain -- Erik, you're wrong.

Wrong about what?

That doesn't mean everything CF does is as good as it will be over time, but as the saying goes:

It is not wise to make Perfect the enemy of Good.

... especially of VERY, VERY GOOD.

I like some aspects of crossfit a lot. I love their emphasis on hard work, promoting deep squatting and exercises that don't involve machines. I like that they are getting Olympic Weightlifting more recognition but, I disagree with some of their approaches to performing the reps in a high intensity, long duration manner. That's all.

Actually, there are many ways O-lifting competition is not optimal for proving who is best, especially from the standpoint of discovering any given athlete's very best.

Olympic Weightlifting is 100% proven to show who is a good O lifter or not. I suppose I misunderstand what you  are saying here. If you are saying that you can't always know an athlete's best performance in relation to the olympic lifts in a competition than I partially agree with you. What you lift that day is what you lift. It is the result of the physical and the mental coming together and performing.

They pull in $50K from certifications pretty much every wknd of the year (that's MILLIONS annually) -- the approach is about success (what people want), WHAT A CONCEPT.

People WANT the O-lifts -- CF's success is a testament to the remarkable failure of other methods tried for bringing OL to the prominence it genuinely deserves.

I don't care who brings it about but, a spark of interest for the sport of weightlifting is always good. I really don't get what you disagree with me about because it sounds like we are on the same page dude.

Dave
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[Dave Chiu]

Erik --

I mean that the technical ideal is not always (or even usually) reached, no matter how good the coach/system.

I believe CF does as well as anyone at promoting good lifting, even if not for maximal weights.  Find me someone who has been to another kind of certification that they judged superior.

O-lift competition is NOT optimal for finding one's best ability on a given day -- throwing and jumping/vaulting are better.

Does anyone believe we saw the biggest weights Aramnau, Chigishev, etc. were capable of on the days of their Beijing competition?

I would like to see a system that gave the top five lifters in each session an extra attempt (if they had made 2 of their first 3) in their choice of either SN or CJ (or even both).  As for non-medal contenders, I would allow third att's to only those who had made at least one of their first two -- that would really cut down on bomb-outs as there would be a major motivation to not start above a sure thing.

There are other important details to make this workable, but just imagine if excellence were awarded real-time in lifting as in jumping/PV and throwing!!

Dave

[Andy Dick]

Athletes aside, I find crossfit is very beneficial for getting adults exposure and interested in Olympic weightlifting.  It is funny the misconceptions around it.  At the fitness club I work at there is this preconception that if you olympic weightlift you need to do a ton of weight.  No one ever thinks that proper progress and teaching would be involved.  Its funny because anyone who has done like a body pump class (pretty big at fitness clubs) has done a clean and press or a clean and push press before (most likely really bad form though) and they don't even know that they are doing variations of the lift.