Topic: Doping and the IWF: Lessons from Bulgaria

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

If Shane can do 237.5 after 8 years of training with a late start then someone brought up through a system, like the Chinese or former Bulgarian systems, could certainly do 250. 

Keep in mind that Shane was already a fantastic powerlifter with huge deep squats. Since performance in the snatch and clean and jerk have a linear relationship with squats this equats to time well served, if not optimal. Still, I believe it is only a matter of time until the All-Time Sr World Records in the supers is broken as we are seeing more big men and more athletic big men all the time. Humans are breeding bigger and with the class unlimited eventually there will be someone big and athletic enough to do it, with or without drugs which would take much longer of course. The other classes I don't see any All Time Records being set unless gene doping is all we are expecting it to be in which case the whole sport becomes pointless at the competitive level IMO.

[Michael Cayton]

I haven’t really followed the issue of the ‘best’ training methods for Olympic lifting, but I would guess there is a whole literature about it. The Bulgarians for at least 20 years have felt that the best gains are made by training with very heavy singles and doubles in the snatch & c&j, with virtually no regular supplementary exercises except front squats. They work up to maximums and go for PRs with virtually every workout. THIS IS REGARDLESS OF DOPING or not, and applies to all lifters, men, women, and masters.

But as to whether this kind of training means fewer injuries is not at all clear.  Most injuries takes place not when lifters are doing reps with lighter weights, but when they are straining with the heaviest weights. Plus, when there are few or no supplementary exercises, this probably means less ‘balanced’ development of supporting muscles, tendons, and ligaments. Which, I would suspect, might make injuries more likely.

Let’s don’t forget as well that Bulgarian method has continued on now many years. But, the results have varied. When, in 2004, doping came to an end (with a new president & coaches of the BWF), the medals pretty well stopped. When, in 2007, the doping started up again (with a return to the pre-2004 president and coaches), there was good medal performance. But now, the huge doping scandal of June, 2008, may well have killed big-time Bulgarian lifting for years, if not forever.

But, regardless, the issue of the superior training method -- highly concentrated or more broadly based -- probably will remain controversial.  I wonder if there have been any efforts to make side-by-side comparisons to see the results.

[Mike Wittmer]

Michael, I wonder how prevalent the "Bulgarian" system was after Abejiev left.  At the junior world championships,
2004 in Minsk, Belarus, I witnessed the two Bulgarian supers work up to heavy snatch pulls (175x3 for three sets) and heavy clean pulls (215x3 for three sets) TWO days out from their competition.  Not only were they doing pulls, but that close and that heavy prior to a competition?  Do you think most of the Bulgarians followed the typical program?

[Michael Cayton]

Mike, I probably should have added pulls along with front squats as supplementary exercises, which are, or were, done fairly regularly. (Although I don’t ever remember seeing Boevski doing pulls -- but maybe I was never around on his days for pulls.) As for going heavy, and even right up to the competition day, I think that has been a standard feature of the Bulgarian teams for years. I doubt that the two heavyweights you saw were doing anything that would have surprised Abadjiev. I wouldn’t think there was much change in training and competition routines after Abadjiev left following the 2000 doping scandal. But actually I should check it out. I’ll ask about it, get back to you. 
   

[Mike Wittmer]

Michael, I did not think they used pulls.  I thought snatch, C&J, front squat was it.  And, I recall Abejiev
saying that, eventually, he saw them dropping front squats. 

[Michael Cayton]

   Mike, I talked with Nikolov today about the changes after Abadjiev. You are right, the two lifters at the Juniors in Minsk would not have been doing pulls 2 days before a contest under Abadjiev. Two days before the meet they would have worked up to level of their first attempts in both snatch & c&j, then somewhat lighter on the last day before.
   He says Abadjiev gradually over the years eliminated most of the supplementary exercises, but pulls never were eliminated entirely.  For example, someone who had more trouble with racking the bar might work on pulls and less on front squats. Power cleans also continued to be used in training. But, of course, the real emphasis was on the two lifts themselves, and very often they would work up to max levels several times during the week, each time much as if they were in a contest.
   Nikolov thinks that the real difference was that after Abadjiev’s departure there just wasn’t the discipline, and often the lifters simply didn’t train as hard, wanted to rely more on doping. But just as elsewhere I am sure there were some who trained hard, some not so hard. Probably in the old days those who didn't train so hard didn't stick around very long. I wonder how many kids today in the West _would_ be willing to live the Spartan lifestyle that characterized their weightlifting camps.

[Mike Wittmer]

   Mike, I talked with Nikolov today about the changes after Abadjiev. You are right, the two lifters at the Juniors in Minsk would not have been doing pulls 2 days before a contest under Abadjiev. Two days before the meet they would have worked up to level of their first attempts in both snatch & c&j, then somewhat lighter on the last day before.
   He says Abadjiev gradually over the years eliminated most of the supplementary exercises, but pulls never were eliminated entirely.  For example, someone who had more trouble with racking the bar might work on pulls and less on front squats. Power cleans also continued to be used in training. But, of course, the real emphasis was on the two lifts themselves, and very often they would work up to max levels several times during the week, each time much as if they were in a contest.
   Nikolov thinks that the real difference was that after Abadjiev’s departure there just wasn’t the discipline, and often the lifters simply didn’t train as hard, wanted to rely more on doping. But just as elsewhere I am sure there were some who trained hard, some not so hard. Probably in the old days those who didn't train so hard didn't stick around very long. I wonder how many kids today in the West _would_ be willing to live the Spartan lifestyle that characterized their weightlifting camps.

Thanks for the information.

[Dave Chiu]

Interesting discussion...

Here's my view on scholarships, drugs, etc:

We need to use a couple big factors in our favor to make lifting an NCAA sport.

1 -- Title IX is a big deal.  That's why many sports like wrestling have been dropped as schools have sought the grail of "gender balance" (good in some ways, but a net -- if "necessary" -- evil).

O-lifting is especially suited to making a good TIX balancer -- inexpensive to set up, relatively safe, exceptionally athletic (and so more interesting to girls who care about not sacrificing all their femininity), and unexcelled in prestige as an Olympic sport.

Perhaps it would have to be done like Rowing is at the collegiate level -- scholarships for women only, but most schools also having a competitive men's club.

I would rather see something along the lines of a dozen scholarships for women, and half that for men, but as long as we're seen as a net benefit TIX-wise...

2 -- Push our value as a place for the multitudinous former gymnasts/cheerleaders/soccer players who grew too big or couldn't get scholarships in their first sport.

Many of the aforementioned Crew scholarships go to girls who were BB or VB players in HS -- never having handled an oar until they walked-on.

At least in OL there's a place for girls who are the full range of normal body sizes.

As for Drugs, I gotta go now, but I echo the recommendation of "Speed Trap", and add the Landis book as essential for getting a sense of the realities of enhancement/testing .