Author Topic: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?  (Read 4418 times)

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #32 on: Oct 29, 2008, 11:44 AM »
Oh, I'm sooo gonna start doing those.

Drill myself to death.  Likely won't get much stronger, but I think I've tapped that resource for about all it's worth.  it's likely a hinderence at this stage, but a good hinderence to have.

Thanks so much for all the thought and insight.

All the best,
 Arden

Very hard to just drop when performing a tall snatch/clean with any reasonable amount of weight - this exercise helps to demonstrate the speed needed to get under the bar, and reinforces what needs to be done in the third pull.  As there is no jump in this exercise (it is generally initiated from the toes with straight legs), it reinforces the need to pull under.

If you haven't yet tried this exercise (I believe it's also called a Barski snatch or clean), you may consider giving it a try.  Will help develop speed getting under the bar, however you choose to think about it. 

http://www.performancemenu.com/exercises/index.php?show=exercise&sectionID=2&exerciseID=150

Offline Gary Valentine

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #33 on: Oct 29, 2008, 12:14 PM »
as chris wrote "From my experience as a coach, lifters tend to do more arm pulling when they think in this manner." that would be my experience and concern too. i dont think ive ever had to tell anyone to pull LESS with their arms. its just natural to want to pick something up liek that - if youre thinking of puling it al the way up, which is wrong for weightlifting. thinking of pulling the elbows up to the ceiling during the pull helps keep the bar close to the body, and is different from arm pulling the bar away from the body. i have said that to lifters "if you want to pull, pull your elbows up, not the bar". that works well it seems. then yes, whipping the elbows under and high is good, again different from a slow arm pull.

the video was good. thats just a clean from the high hang we'd call it. barski cleans (bob bednarski, coached by Joe Mills) were done from a bit lower, even below knee. they are tremendously helpful to the lifts. but the emphasis was the same, as joe taghut to just reach standing height for a fraction of a second likle a piston, then go down.
the "clean from full extension" that i use starts even higher, and done mostly with an empy bar, or eventuall relatively lighter weight. even no weight at first, just practice the feel of stdning up and sqautting down immediatly. start by standing  with arms straight but go into full shrug, and onto balls of feet. idea is that now youve got the bar higher off the ground than it is when youre in the full deep fr sq catch position. so the whole idea is to teach just the jump down,  - so go ahead, call it pull under or third pull from this position - but get to full sq as fast as you can. then you add wieght and do what th eguy in the vid did, start from high hang, then mid thigh, then below knee, etc. thats how i teach the lifts. think about it this way also. you can stand infrontof a chair and sit down slowly or quickly, right? and youre not using anything to pull you down quicker. so as if by pulling knees up and using hip flxoers to pull you down, yuou go faster. thats more of what we mean by jumping under. and yes, add to that a perfectly timed"third pull", and everybodys happy. :-)
i have clip of clean from full extension, email me if you like-g

Offline Fred Fialco

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #34 on: Oct 29, 2008, 12:16 PM »
As stated before, these suggestions are subject to peer review - and please correct where necessary:

When you're performing the tall snatch or tall clean, start on the toes with straight legs.  As this is an assistance exercise focusing primarily on the 3rd pull, the legs are not used to accelerate the bar upwards.  Initiate the movement of the bar upwards solely with a shrug, and then begin moving down under the bar.  The bar does not move vertically that much at all.  This drill also helps correct early arm bend at the top of the second pull.  Line your feet up behind something, like a piece of tape or chalk line, to notice where your feet are finishing - forward or behind the line.  Ideally, you do not want to be forward of this line.  If so, work more on keeping the elbows HIGH and finishing the turnover.  

Yes, they are quite difficult to do with much weight, but an excellent drill for the 3rd pull.

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #35 on: Oct 29, 2008, 12:24 PM »
Thanks Gary,
 So the drill is with light weights, already on the toes, knees and hips extended - everything except the traps?

 I know this is unrelated to cleans, but do you think the "pull with elbows" at the top with the cleans? Shrug, High elbows, jump down, then whip under?

  I'm going to continue the drill work until I feel more comfortable with the third pull (tall, hang, then full).  Just gotta get that Tall one right at this stage.

 Thanks so much for all the thought and effort.

  What's your email address?  I'd love to see the video.

All the best,
  Arden

as chris wrote "From my experience as a coach, lifters tend to do more arm pulling when they think in this manner." that would be my experience and concern too. i dont think ive ever had to tell anyone to pull LESS with their arms. its just natural to want to pick something up liek that - if youre thinking of puling it al the way up, which is wrong for weightlifting. thinking of pulling the elbows up to the ceiling during the pull helps keep the bar close to the body, and is different from arm pulling the bar away from the body. i have said that to lifters "if you want to pull, pull your elbows up, not the bar". that works well it seems. then yes, whipping the elbows under and high is good, again different from a slow arm pull.

the video was good. thats just a clean from the high hang we'd call it. barski cleans (bob bednarski, coached by Joe Mills) were done from a bit lower, even below knee. they are tremendously helpful to the lifts. but the emphasis was the same, as joe taghut to just reach standing height for a fraction of a second likle a piston, then go down.
the "clean from full extension" that i use starts even higher, and done mostly with an empy bar, or eventuall relatively lighter weight. even no weight at first, just practice the feel of stdning up and sqautting down immediatly. start by standing  with arms straight but go into full shrug, and onto balls of feet. idea is that now youve got the bar higher off the ground than it is when youre in the full deep fr sq catch position. so the whole idea is to teach just the jump down,  - so go ahead, call it pull under or third pull from this position - but get to full sq as fast as you can. then you add wieght and do what th eguy in the vid did, start from high hang, then mid thigh, then below knee, etc. thats how i teach the lifts. think about it this way also. you can stand infrontof a chair and sit down slowly or quickly, right? and youre not using anything to pull you down quicker. so as if by pulling knees up and using hip flxoers to pull you down, yuou go faster. thats more of what we mean by jumping under. and yes, add to that a perfectly timed"third pull", and everybodys happy. :-)
i have clip of clean from full extension, email me if you like-g

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #36 on: Oct 29, 2008, 12:25 PM »
Thanks Fred,
  This is gonna be much fun.  I'll do some tall cleans like this tomorrow.  My body is saying "no more pie" right now.

All the best,
 Arden

As stated before, these suggestions are subject to peer review - and please correct where necessary:

When you're performing the tall snatch or tall clean, start on the toes with straight legs.  As this is an assistance exercise focusing primarily on the 3rd pull, the legs are not used to accelerate the bar upwards.  Initiate the movement of the bar upwards solely with a shrug, and then begin moving down under the bar.  The bar does not move vertically that much at all.  This drill also helps correct early arm bend at the top of the second pull.  Line your feet up behind something, like a piece of tape or chalk line, to notice where your feet are finishing - forward or behind the line.  Ideally, you do not want to be forward of this line.  If so, work more on keeping the elbows HIGH and finishing the turnover.  

Yes, they are quite difficult to do with much weight, but an excellent drill for the 3rd pull.

Offline Gary Valentine

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #37 on: Oct 29, 2008, 01:06 PM »
Thanks Gary,
 So the drill is with light weights, already on the toes, knees and hips extended - everything except the traps?

---extend the traps too! full shrug with straight arms. the idea is to just get to the fully extended position where bar is higher off ground as isaid than when in catch, and jsut go down whipping elbos under. you dont have to pull its already higher. it just becoems a drill for boody speed under the bar. als, its good to just hold the start position for 10seconds ot more, just to get the feel of where youre trying to get from the floor. realizing too that in the lift the bar will be floating throught this position wiith some momentum.

 I know this is unrelated to cleans, but do you think the "pull with elbows" at the top with the cleans? Shrug, High elbows, jump down, then whip under?

---yes. bsaically thats the start position above, or more accuratley, what it looks like when the bar is floating through that position with momentum during the lift if elbows are continuing up after shrug. .

  I'm going to continue the drill work until I feel more comfortable with the third pull (tall, hang, then full).  Just gotta get that Tall one right at this stage.

 Thanks so much for all the thought and effort.

-no problem. im condemned to being a coach:-)

  What's your email address?  I'd love to see the video.

garyv@optonline.net

All the best,
  Arden

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #38 on: Oct 29, 2008, 01:16 PM »
Gary,
  Wow.  Holding that position for 10 seconds then jumping under the bar is going to be a riot.  I've never been wired like that or tried anything like that, so it's going to be comical for a while.  But I'll do it.

Thanks.

All the best,
 Arden