Author Topic: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?  (Read 4286 times)

Offline Gary Valentine

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #24 on: Oct 29, 2008, 09:36 AM »
thanks arden! i think you can go to you tube (i cant ge t the link here at work) to search my name and hang clean. i had put a 152 or so that i did a few months ago, it should still be there.
good ppoints fred, its hard to describe that feel of "third pull", "jump under", "screw under" as denis reno calls it, "minimze bar drop time" as the research says. whatever its called, maximize the upward force and time the fast squat as best possible. and again, thats where the power clean can get in the way. yes, "elbows to the ceiling" weve described it, "whip elbows under" is good as you cant whip and curl at the same time, so if the lifter thinks whip under to elbows high, better chance of getting it. in eithr case, its the opposite of standing there on your feet too long and trying to pull it higher, and unfortunatley, thats what some call a power clean. -g

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #25 on: Oct 29, 2008, 09:42 AM »
Fred,
 I think I understand.

 Instead of drop - it's pull the body under. 

  It's going to take a while.  I'm finally getting okay with the pull - pop - drop. 

The elbow movement you are describing - is that "high and wide" to keep the bar close to the body as you're pulling under the bar?

I hope I'm understanding correctly.  Again, it's going to take me a while.  It's good that I'm OCD on performance issues.

All the best,
 Arden

Arden - I will preface this by saying many on this board are far more knowledgeable on these matters than me.  However, I'll throw this out there and see if it passes the peer review process.....

As it was explained to me, the third pull is just that - a pull.  The lifter is aggressively pulling themselves down under the bar.  So, it is not much "dropping" under the bar, which implies a more passive movement, as it is "pulling" down under the bar, which is a very active movement.  This active movement facilitates the necessary acceleration of the body downward, to get in the receiving position and beat the bar from crashing down on unset arms.

Also, in looking at the video, a pointer that has been made to me constantly, is the importance of keeping your elbows high and up (as opposed to letting them drop early and having them pointing back) in the third pull.  This will enable a much straighter bar path up the torso (closer to the body) and eliminate the need to chase the bar (jump forward) and missing lifts out front.  If you did a freeze frame, you should see yourself looking like a scarecrow as you begin to reverse direction and pull yourself down under the bar.



Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #26 on: Oct 29, 2008, 09:44 AM »
Gary,
 I like that "elbows" to the ceiling" then "whip elbows under."

 Would that co-incide with "punch fists" or "elbows straight?"

All the best,
 Arden

thanks arden! i think you can go to you tube (i cant ge t the link here at work) to search my name and hang clean. i had put a 152 or so that i did a few months ago, it should still be there.
good ppoints fred, its hard to describe that feel of "third pull", "jump under", "screw under" as denis reno calls it, "minimze bar drop time" as the research says. whatever its called, maximize the upward force and time the fast squat as best possible. and again, thats where the power clean can get in the way. yes, "elbows to the ceiling" weve described it, "whip elbows under" is good as you cant whip and curl at the same time, so if the lifter thinks whip under to elbows high, better chance of getting it. in eithr case, its the opposite of standing there on your feet too long and trying to pull it higher, and unfortunatley, thats what some call a power clean. -g

Offline Fred Fialco

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #27 on: Oct 29, 2008, 10:28 AM »
It's absolutely PULL under - think about it this way....two objects of different weights will drop at the same rate, right?  Well, if we're trying to beat the bar down, we must find a way to accelerate our rate of descent (because we don't want to cut short our second pull and start down too early).  So, the PULL under achieves that goal, whereas the mere DROP under does not.

Elbows to the ceiling is a good cue, or simply keep the elbows high.  Turning them over at the top seems to come naturally to most, but the speed of this movement is what's is very important to emphasize.

Offline Chris Ⓐ LeRoux

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #28 on: Oct 29, 2008, 10:42 AM »
I'm not saying it is wrong to think of pulling under the bar but I personally have never found it to be an effective coaching cue nor does it help me in any way I can notice. From my experience as a coach, lifters tend to do more arm pulling when they think in this manner. I do agree completely with the concept of trying to keep the elbows pointing up rather than backward during the finish of the pull and jump under, as much as possible. And, jumping under is how I like to think of it and teach it. It is pretty much impossible to jump slowly and thinking of it in terms of jumping is intuitive and effective from my experience for getting lifters to understand the movement and move quickly under the bar.
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Offline Fred Fialco

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #29 on: Oct 29, 2008, 10:58 AM »
Very hard to just drop when performing a tall snatch/clean with any reasonable amount of weight - this exercise helps to demonstrate the speed needed to get under the bar, and reinforces what needs to be done in the third pull.  As there is no jump in this exercise (it is generally initiated from the toes with straight legs), it reinforces the need to pull under.

If you haven't yet tried this exercise (I believe it's also called a Barski snatch or clean), you may consider giving it a try.  Will help develop speed getting under the bar, however you choose to think about it. 

http://www.performancemenu.com/exercises/index.php?show=exercise&sectionID=2&exerciseID=150

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #30 on: Oct 29, 2008, 11:41 AM »
Fred,
  Makes sense.  If I weren't beat to death because of my GPP the past few days, I'd head up the gym right now and drill myself to death with 45 kilos.  :-D

  Elbows high and wide - elbows to the ceiling.

  Pull - Pop - elbows high and wide - drop/pull under.

I'm going to get this.

All the best,
 Arden

It's absolutely PULL under - think about it this way....two objects of different weights will drop at the same rate, right?  Well, if we're trying to beat the bar down, we must find a way to accelerate our rate of descent (because we don't want to cut short our second pull and start down too early).  So, the PULL under achieves that goal, whereas the mere DROP under does not.

Elbows to the ceiling is a good cue, or simply keep the elbows high.  Turning them over at the top seems to come naturally to most, but the speed of this movement is what's is very important to emphasize.

Offline Arden Cogar Jr.

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Re: What do you tell yourself when going into the third pull?
« Reply #31 on: Oct 29, 2008, 11:42 AM »
Chris,
  Excellent.

  Let me redo my cues from above - Pull, Pop, elbows high and wide, jump under and punch up.

All the best,
 Arden

I'm not saying it is wrong to think of pulling under the bar but I personally have never found it to be an effective coaching cue nor does it help me in any way I can notice. From my experience as a coach, lifters tend to do more arm pulling when they think in this manner. I do agree completely with the concept of trying to keep the elbows pointing up rather than backward during the finish of the pull and jump under, as much as possible. And, jumping under is how I like to think of it and teach it. It is pretty much impossible to jump slowly and thinking of it in terms of jumping is intuitive and effective from my experience for getting lifters to understand the movement and move quickly under the bar.