Topic: Snatch technique question

[Brooke Burkhalter]

I understand video would be more helpful, however I would like to see if I can get some insight.

I can Power Snatch within 5 kilo of my Squat Snatch. I am also more consistent with power snatch.

I am a beginner, been lifting 3-4 months and have worked up to a body weight snatch yet I can almost power snacth this weight. Any common reaons this may be happening?

Thanks for the help.

[ryankyle]

Simple - your not full snatching right.  Stop all powers for a while and concentrate and the snatch as a lift by itself - not a power then a jump under but one single lift of snatch like you would with a squat.  If your power is that close you may also have hip and/or ankle flexibility isssues.  If not then need to practice snatch, snatch, snatch.  The power snatch is not the full snatch and is not even close to it as it is much, much simpler.  I think sometimes we can go power crazy and try to derive full lift maxes from powers, really it should be the other way around.  Don't worry about power snatching worry about snatching first.  There are no world records for power snatch.  No one ever got better at throwing curveballs by throwing fastballs.
Ryan

[Brooke Burkhalter]

Simple - your not full snatching right.  Stop all powers for a while and concentrate and the snatch as a lift by itself - not a power then a jump under but one single lift of snatch like you would with a squat.  If your power is that close you may also have hip and/or ankle flexibility isssues.  If not then need to practice snatch, snatch, snatch.  The power snatch is not the full snatch and is not even close to it as it is much, much simpler.  I think sometimes we can go power crazy and try to derive full lift maxes from powers, really it should be the other way around.  Don't worry about power snatching worry about snatching first.  There are no world records for power snatch.  No one ever got better at throwing curveballs by throwing fastballs.
Ryan

Thanks. I am not purposefully power snatching per se. It is just that, well I can Power Snatch it if I really extend the pull. I seem to cut the pull short anticipating going under the bar when full snatching a similar weight as I can power snatch. I seem to have a difficult time finding that middle ground. Your probably right in that I need to do more snatching. Just making myself snatch the weight. My coach has placed more higher intensity singles in the 85-92% range this past week. Hopefully it will correct itself. It is just frustrating as I feel I should be around 10 kilo higher on snatch than power snatch.

[ryankyle]

Another point - forget about pull overextending under-extending, etc.  Again, your trying to compartmentalize something that just is.  It is just snatch remember that.  No first pull, second pull, triple joint extension, pull under, catch, stand up.  It is just snatch, the end.  To think overextend or don't underextend on a lift that takes less than 1 second to complete = the kiss of death.  Just grab the bar, empty your mind and let your body move and you may find the secret.
Ryan

[Brooke Burkhalter]

Another point - forget about pull overextending under-extending, etc.  Again, your trying to compartmentalize something that just is.  It is just snatch remember that.  No first pull, second pull, triple joint extension, pull under, catch, stand up.  It is just snatch, the end.  To think overextend or don't underextend on a lift that takes less than 1 second to complete = the kiss of death.  Just grab the bar, empty your mind and let your body move and you may find the secret.
Ryan

Thanks. I do not recall thinking those thoughts when actually snatching, however my mind is not always clear and I do lift best when it is. I was trying to describe what may happen when I miss. I lose snatches forward almost all the time, weight supported overhead and then slightly gets out of position and lose it forward. I typically just try to make sure the weight is centered on my feet at midfoot, drop down and up, keeping chest up.......yeah I most likely overthink it.

I like your idea of thinking Snatch and that is it. I think that will probably help me there and on Cleans.

What are your thoughts when you have an obvious flaw and it needs cueing? Say you you don't keep your chest up, etc., do you agree that needs cueing to fix it?

Greg Everett's book has helped in the flaw correction department.

[Dave Almeida]

Yes technique flaws need cuing. Just thinking "snatch" won't really accomplish anything if you don't have the technical base in the first place. The bar will just continue to be out of place in the catch position because you will just be using the motor patterns you have already established and those motor patterns  are not working for you. Therefore you need cues until you get the correct pulling technique established. Once the pull is correct then you can just think about snatching the weight and nothing else. It is probably best to focus more of your time on learning the pull while performing the full snatch since it is easier to get away with improper pulling technique on power snatches.

Ryan I am going to have to disagree with your point about not worrying about technique and just snatching. For example, a baseball swing, even though it looks simple, is not just one movement. Although someone may watch a baseball game and just see a swing because it takes even less time than a snatch, it really is far more complex than just one simple movement. The snatch is the same way. There are a series of movements taking place at an extremely quick rate that makes it look "easy" and like it is just one quick pull. These movements need to be taught as it is not a normal motor pattern for most people. Zhang Guozheng says he has been practicing for 20 years but it still takes work and it does not come natural to him. Telling a beginner just to snatch and not worry about technical aspects isn't really the answer especially when the bar isn't getting to the right place.

We do need a video to make any technical recommendations though.

[ryankyle]

The point was not to just forget about technique and such and just snatch.  The point was when performing the lift at the time it is best to have a clear head.  I highley doubt Barry Bonds stands at the plate and says "ok barry, lift your front leg, put it down, turn your hips, keep your hands level, following through.."  "strike 3!" 

For Brooke's case being a beginner thinking will only prevent her body from learning how to move correctly for her.  Now, after the training session is over it would be wise of her to review the tape and perhaps note the flaws and decide to fix the worst one the next time and so on and so forth.  I use to think I had to explain all the nuances of the snatch to lifters and then I realized if they are even half and athlete after I show them how to lift it's best to be quiet and let them figure it out and disect it later.  Giving cues during the lifting will just make them think about it on the next lift taking away from the task at hand - snatching it.  Yes this will work with light weights but it will also slow down the speed of the lift and if it slows down even the slightest all hope is lost during heavy attempts.

Brooke, as far as not keeping your chest up, just remember to hold it in good position at the beginning but then clear your mind and motor.   It would be a good idea to sure it up with lighter weights before attacking PR's.  Also, you must learn to just let your body move, you will figure it out, review tape of yourself after the session to pick up any snafu's and practice them with a stick so at the next session you'll have some sort of idea of what right feels like.  And yes, provide film if you can.
Ryan

[Dave Almeida]

 You shouldn't be snatching near max very often if you have bad technique. Your statements are contradictory. On one hand you want a clear head, on the other hand you want the lifter to review tape and make adjustments. The only way to make adjustments is by consciously altering motor patterns. This is done through the use of cues. Working with a stick is a start but that does not transfer over to heavier weights alone. It needs to be built up in stages.
 There is a difference between snatching a max weight and a sub maximal weight with cues. It has been made very clear by many top international coaches that you should focus on learning proper technique first with the use of cues before going on to attempting maximal loads often and not thinking about anything. You can tell a lifter just to snatch but then it is the job of the coach to tell the lifter what to change. The only way to make those changes is by the athlete making a conscious mental decision to do so, it just doesn't happen by hearing it or seeing it on tape.

Barry Bonds thinks about specific technical aspects of his hitting while taking batting PRACTICE. That's what training is for a lifter. It is practice. You certainly want a clear head on maximal attempts but when you don't have the proper technique what is the point of just going up there and trying to move the barbell as fast as possible? Beginners should not be training like elites therefore they should not be taking many max attempts and should focus their energy on grasping the technical aspects of the lifts. Motor patterns need to be developed and they have been proven to be developed very effectively in many sports through the use of mental cues.