Topic: All-time Best US Lifters!!

[John Way]

maybe too extraordinary?

YZ actually I would say no, actually cause he didnt get (Klokovs brillant 247.5 1983 Moscow WWC) 110 jerk WR till 1986 WWC so Vlad had his 100 snatch record the day earlier, and Kuzneitsov had the jerk record 100s (from 1983?-1988 when popov got it)

NS, held jerk & total wrs at 56 when his first broke 60kg records of ?Sarkissian, Toporov,(World Cup 1984)
but Mirozian had the Snatch record of 133kg by then?

your move Dave! close but no cigar

[Ronald Mann]

Hi John (and Dave)
To the best of my knowledge,Yuri Zakharevitch never held all the world records in two classes at the same time - as you correctly stated above,John,his first ever record for the 110kg clean and jerk (248kg) was set at the 1986 Worlds in Sofia,by which time the 440kg total from the 1983 Frienship Cup in Odessa was his only remaining record in the 100kg division.
However,Naim Suleymanoglu did hold all the world records for the 60kg class as from the 1984 World Cup meet in Sarajevo,along with all the 56kg records as from the 1984 'Red Olympics' in Varna until 1989 (when his snatch record of 134kg was broken by Chinese Liu Shoubin with 134.5kg).

I hope that you guys don't mind my 'butting in' (so to speak) on your friendly discussion - regards and best wishes
Ron Mann

[Ronald Mann]

Hi again,John (and Dave)
Just a minor correction to my previous post above. The 56kg world records set by Naim Suleymanoglu (then Suleimanov) in 1984 were not achieved at the "Red Olympics",but at a competition in Varna the following month (on 20th October) where he recorded lifts of 132.5,172.5-305 with an extra attempt  snatch of 134kg. Sorry about that

Regards and best wishes
Ron Mann

[John Way]

i am not aware of NS doing more than 132.5 at 56kg snatch officially, whio is your source as the IWF and World Weightlifting quote Liu Shobin (?spelling as the lifter who broke Oksen Mirozian's 133 from Varna 84 games) with 133.5 and later did 134, 134.5 and 135 (at 1991 WWC but lost to the Korean who totaled 295kg)

 "competition in Varna the following month (on 20th October) where he recorded lifts of 132.5,172.5-305 with an extra attempt  snatch of 134kg." I have seen these results once listed in a guiness book of records (i.e. 1984 or 1985), they were never ratified by the IWF R Mann.

[Ronald Mann]

Hi John
Thanks very much for your informative reply.

Unfortunately John,I don't possess any IWF publications relating to this particular period of time. My information came from two seperate sources,as follows:

1. Arthur Chidlovski's excellent "Lift-Up" website,which contains a massive amount of information including a chronology of world records for all lifts and weight divisions from 1919 onwards; in addition to listings of placegetters from all Olympic Games,World and European championships,etc; career profiles of literally hundreds of International lifters through the decades and an extensive collection of video clips of various top lifters. To the best of my knowledge,Mr.Chidlovski has sourced his information from IWF statistics. Anyhow John,if you're interested here's the link to his site:
"http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/e_movie_theater.asp"

2. An alltime ranking list of individual lifts and totals (current as of 1st November,1984) compiled by noted American statistician Herb Glossbrenner,which was listed in Vol.9.No.3 of the "International Olympic Lifter" magazine published by Bob Hise. Suleymanoglu ranks at the top of each 56kg discipline with 134,172.5 and 305 respectively - with a date of  20th October,1984 for each. Herb issued many varied ranking lists over a period of several decades,with some of them extending to as many as 100 top placings for each lift and weight class.

John,your information is obviously correct,so it appears that for some reason Suleymanoglu's lifts on 20/10/1984 (I'm not entirely sure of the actual venue) did not meet with IWF approval. Thanks for correcting me,I shall now update my own files accordingly.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

[Gary Valentine]

All-time Most Weight Lifted by Americans from the Ground to Overhead: ???

1968 NAtionals. Bob Bednarski. World Record Press, 456, World Record JErk 486. Weighed in at 247, got on scale after jerk was weighed, 243. in an era when bar was just being allowed to touch thighs, thigh "brush" not the cataplut of today, keep all the formulas, this is hands down one of the top, if not THE top, performance by and AMericaqn. Best in the World in two lifts on the same day. -g

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Gary,

According to the Golden Standard formula, rounding pounds in to kgs, that clean and jerk would be 6th best in American history out of all the weight class records (99.49%). So, it agrees with you that this is one of the best ever, though its not on the ranking list because it isn't an American Record any longer. What was his snatch? No way to adjust for lack of thigh brush of course.

Golden Standard Rankings of Junior and Senior American Records

[Gary Valentine]

- how does the Golden Formula account for doing 3 lifts in a meet instead of 2? i.e., do you think anyone on that list would have clean and jerked as much if they had to add 3 limit presses (in this case a World Record!) to their exertion for the night? gotta be worth more than the few kgs difference. nevermind the training time put into 3 lifts instead of 2.
- the hip thrust adds a very significant amount to the lift, as does the better equipment now. see shemanski's thoughts on it:-) speaking of whom, norbs 362 split snatch at age 40 (41?) is absolutly unbeliveable, espescially considering no thigh brush. try it! wrists cocked, arms purposely bent to keep bar away from body, poor leverage big haul job. no wonder he had two back surgeries before that! then there's his triple with the Appolon... -g