Topic: All-time Best US Lifters!!

[John Way]

The "records" mentioned 20/10/1984 were done in Belgrade I believe,

I have no idea why Naims 56kg records 134,172.5 and 305 were never offically recognised,

it is a strange piece of IWF history?

so no 56kg lifter prior to Mutlu ever did exceed the 300 officially,

although the Korean tried in 1992 OG

Terziiski claimed the "WR" jerk of 171 at the 1987 WWC Ostrava,

In regards to Arthurs records,
they are Soviet recognised record lists and not IWF lists, so they are similarilties and differences
over 50 odd years of lifting?

also some "Historians" have confused Hafis Sulem.... and Naim,

Hafis no relation, lifted for both USSR and Turkey, was WW Champion 1989 (USSR) and broke WRs in snatch
at 59kg (1995 Euros) whilst lifting for Turkey.

thanks Ron, hopefully the IWF will release some more info online,
 but I believe some of their older publications may still be available ??

JPW

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

how does the Golden Formula account for doing 3 lifts in a meet instead of 2?

It doesn't. Still, the GS is the best way to compare lifts done at different bodyweights and times in existence and it agrees with you that Bednarski's lift is one of the best ever in American history.

the hip thrust adds a very significant amount to the lift, as does the better equipment now.

I disagree. I have played around with it and find it to be not that big a deal. I believe that to some extent the technique used develops strength in that movement. Personally, I say its no more than a 5kg difference with/without the thigh brush, given years of training in that style, which is indeed pretty big but not massive. I also don't think equipment is that big a deal as I have lifted big weights for me on crappy stuff.

[ryankyle]

Two lifters prior to Mutlu hit a 300kg total at 56kg.  Naim Suleymanoglu did it at the 1984 Europeans (I think) via 132.5 and 170 for 302.5 - that was an official IWF total for a World Record.  Later in September he snatched 132.5 and clean and jerked 165 for 297.5 and after 2 attempts made 170.5 on his 4th attempt.  Even later in 1984 he lifted in the World Cup in Sarajevo but as a 60kg lifter and did World Record lifts of 142.5 and 185.5 at only 17.  He never cleaned and jerked 172.5.  Also, Naim never held all the 56kg and 60kg world records at the same time.  He did snatch the world record in Varna with 132.5 but Oksen Mirzoyan broke it with 133 Naim then tried 133.5 on his 4th but missed.  So he actually only held 5/6 world records between the classes.
        After Naim came Mitko Grablev who did 132.5 and 167.5 in 1988 in Seoul although he would later test positive. 
Ryan   

[John Way]

Grablev snatched 130kg in Seoul

[Ronald Mann]

The "records" mentioned 20/10/1984 were done in Belgrade I believe,
I have no idea why Naims 56kg records 134,172.5 and 305 were never offically recognised,
it is a strange piece of IWF history?
so no 56kg lifter prior to Mutlu ever did exceed the 300 officially,
although the Korean tried in 1992 OG
Terziiski claimed the "WR" jerk of 171 at the 1987 WWC Ostrava,
In regards to Arthurs records,
they are Soviet recognised record lists and not IWF lists, so they are similarilties and differences
over 50 odd years of lifting?
also some "Historians" have confused Hafis Sulem.... and Naim,
Hafis no relation, lifted for both USSR and Turkey, was WW Champion 1989 (USSR) and broke WRs in snatch
at 59kg (1995 Euros) whilst lifting for Turkey.
thanks Ron, hopefully the IWF will release some more info online,
 but I believe some of their older publications may still be available ??
JPW

Hi John
Thanks very much for your reply and the 'heads-up' on the Chidlovski site. I had previously suspected the accuracy of all his information,as I've noticed that he attributes a large quantity of world records to various Soviet lifters during WW2 years,a time when (as far as I'm aware) they weren't even affiliated to the IWF (back then known as the FIHC). In addition to this,Oscar State issued a full chronology of IWF world recordds for the clean and press after it was abolished in 1972,and some of Arthur's listings do not tally with these.

John,I've found an old 1984 calendar listing an International event for Belgrade on the date that Suleymanoglu recorded his 305kg total,so it appears that this may well have been the venue for his unofficial records. Arthur Chidlovski listed Sarajevo for them,which is obviously incorrect as that is where Naim set his initial records for the 60kg class. I've also come across a performance of 130,170-300 attributed to Naim sometime in May 1984 (after the European Champs - possibly in Varna - Bulgarian Nationals,maybe?) - would you happen to know anything about this,and whether the jerk and total were officially ratified by the IWF?

Thanks again for your help,John - regards and best wishes
Ron

[Ronald Mann]

Two lifters prior to Mutlu hit a 300kg total at 56kg.  Naim Suleymanoglu did it at the 1984 Europeans (I think) via 132.5 and 170 for 302.5 - that was an official IWF total for a World Record.  Later in September he snatched 132.5 and clean and jerked 165 for 297.5 and after 2 attempts made 170.5 on his 4th attempt.  Even later in 1984 he lifted in the World Cup in Sarajevo but as a 60kg lifter and did World Record lifts of 142.5 and 185.5 at only 17.  He never cleaned and jerked 172.5.  Also, Naim never held all the 56kg and 60kg world records at the same time.  He did snatch the world record in Varna with 132.5 but Oksen Mirzoyan broke it with 133 Naim then tried 133.5 on his 4th but missed.  So he actually only held 5/6 world records between the classes.
        After Naim came Mitko Grablev who did 132.5 and 167.5 in 1988 in Seoul although he would later test positive. 
Ryan   

Hi Ryan
Thanks for your informative reply.

Ryan,no disrespect,but just a couple of minor corrections. Mitko Grablev's lifts at the Seoul Olympics were actually 130,162.5-297.5 (I have the TV highlights from this division on video tape) and Naim Suleymanoglu did 130,167.5-297.5 in winning the 56kg class at the 1984 European Champs (as per the contest report in IOL magazine). It appears that Naim also achieved lifts of 130,170-300 sometime later in May (as I mentioned above to John) ,but I'm unable to locate any more details concerning this.

Regards and best wishes
Ron

[John Way]

"Naim Suleymanoglu did 130,167.5-297.5 in winning the 56kg class at the 1984 European Champs (as per the contest report in IOL magazine). It appears that Naim also achieved lifts of 130,170-300 sometime later in May (as I mentioned above to John) ,but I'm unable to locate any more details concerning this."

I wouldnt be at all surprised if Naim did 168 (euros) above , as he was eager to get the triple bwt?

the rest sounds very familiar athough I cant produce any evidence of the above easily, I am

very comfortable with this paragraph,

cheers Ron

many thanks John

PS if anyone does come up with VIDEO lifting from 1984 Europeans , 84 Bulgar Nats , varna games August 84 or Naims first 60kg records (other than what is on Arthurs site) please let us know, I am sure I am not the only one keen to have a look.

[Shaun Le Conte]

Might there be some answer in the biography about Naim that Sportivny Press has published? Mine is half a world away otherwise I would check it myself.