Topic: Slotgate revisited

[Paul LaDuke]

Okay, pretend that you are the President and Board of the USAW with all authority to choose who you want to represent the US at the 2008 Olympic Games.  You must chose only 2 male lifters.  Who would you choose?  Why? Who would you leave home?  Why?  What standard or objective measure would you use or would you just go by feel?  When do you set the QTs for 2012 and how would you establish the standards or would you even use a standard?  The IWF doesn't care who you bring, you can only bring the number of athletes that you deserve according to their system.  We have all bitterly complained about Casey being left out, but we had to leave someone out.  Who would it be? 

Now that it all is said and done, what would you do differently this quad in order to see that it doesn't happen in London in 2012?

[Shaun Le Conte]

1st -  Don't just use the top 3 results --> more data gives a more reliable measure
2nd - Don't screw up so badly at the World Championships, the single biggest cause of the US only sending two lifters this year

[AlekoKouva]

have you guys heared of the russian team selection scandal going on now??

[Paul LaDuke]

1st -  Don't just use the top 3 results --> more data gives a more reliable measure
2nd - Don't screw up so badly at the World Championships, the single biggest cause of the US only sending two lifters this year

I am not sure what you mean by the 1st statement.  Are you suggesting to base your QT on the top 10 places in each weight class?  If that is the case, what years would you use and when would you finalize your Olympic QT.

2nd statement is very true!  The USAW needs to take the international championships a little more seriously and do everything in their power to see that the best lifters are in shape and ready for all the world championships and competitions that gain points for the Olympic games.  We should qualify 4 males for the next Oly games.  Casey, Chad, Kendrick and Moser or Vardanian should all be able to represent our country well at the next games.


Aleko,

I have not heard the Russian controversy, but I can imagine that could be ugly with the quality of lifters that aren't at Beijing.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Use the Golden Standard! No more nonsense!

Absolute total wins within the weight class so that GS% doesn't get a lighter lifter lifting less weight selected for a squad over a heavier lifter within the class that beat him. Use the GS% to compare lifters of different classes, which is what it was designed to do and is better at than anything else, with highest %'s in each class, with up to two per class, making the squad.

Golden Standard Calculator

CITATION
Standardization and Validation of the Body Weight Adjustment Regression Equations in Olympic Weightlifting
Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2002, 16(1)
2002 National Strength & Conditioning Association
Heikki Kauhannen, Paavo V. Komi, and Keijo Hakkinen

ABSTRACT
The problems in comparing the performances of Olympic weightlifters arise from the fact that the relationship between body weight and weightlifting results is not linear. In the present study, this relationship was examined by using a nonparametric curve fitting technique of robust locally weighted regression (LOWESS) on relatively large data sets of the weightlifting results made in top international competitions. Power function formulas were derived from the fitted LOWESS values to represent the relationship between the 2 variables in a way that directly compares the snatch, clean-and-jerk, and total weightlifting results of a given athlete with those of the world-class weightlifters (golden standards). A residual analysis of several other parametric models derived from the initial results showed that they all experience inconsistencies, yielding either underestimation or overestimation of certain body weights. In addition, the existing handicapping formulas commonly used in normalizing the performances of Olympic weightlifters did not yield satisfactory results when applied to the present data. It was concluded that the devised formulas may provide objective means for the evaluation of the performances of male weightlifters, regardless of their body weights, ages, or performance levels.

[Paul LaDuke]

Somehow I knew you would come in with the GS Chris!  Just don't let D. McC see the suggestion!

Have you ever run the numbers for Chad, Kendrick and Casey to see who would have stayed home using the GS?  I would, but I just don't have the time right now and I am sure you don't either.  Maybe later this week I can.  It would be interesting. 

I would like to see the QTs be something that is objective for all weight classes and across weight class as well as something that could be established now for 2012.  The GS certainly fits the bill.  I think the problem would be the powers that be don't seem to like using the GS for whatever reason.  It certainly is more valid of a measure to me than the current system of establishing a QT for each weight class.  Plus the current system can't be established until 2011 and uses too little of a data base.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Yes, I ran the numbers and Casey was on the squad, but that was before the Trials. If someone provided the highest total eligible for consideration from the top five lifters, I would run them. But, I am sure Casey would be on the squad using GS%. Donald is pretty closed minded, but the GS% is gaining support, slowly.

[Mike Wittmer]

Do you want to send the best weightlifters or the ones with the best chance to place the highest?

At one point, using the method that selected the '07 world team, my son (94kg/355 total) ranked lower than supers that were lifting less weight than him.   In fact, unknown to either of us at the time, he was entered in the '07 worlds as an alternate in the 105 as his 355 was projected to place him higher there than in the 94s. 

Also, as of now, don't count on Casey lifting anymore.

I think Kendrick and Chad are our two best lifters presently.  Casey next.