Topic: Cheaters

[Mads Thøgersø]

Chris LeRoux:
Then, what would be a better "punishment" For the use of doping?

I know it's sad, but it's true, doping can't be stopped!
The problem is:
If just ONE guy use doping, others "will have to do" the same to follow, and sadly some of them will do it!

So just ONE rotten apple will do it.

[Gary Valentine]

I've had about enough of this nonsense.

Gary go ask your cheater / user question to the USA lifters who've used and cheated, been tested, caught, and suspended legally for anabolic steroids.

simple question steve, since you lifted in an era known for drug use,  and the thread is asking how much drugs add to lifting results, i'm asking what you used, how much, and how much of an effect, + or -, you feel it had. either before or after 1972 official ban, thats not the question. if your answer is you never used, im glad to hear that! but the answer from any others ive known that have been caught is to say that others were doing it, so they did too. i stated how i feel about that answer above. others classify it as some type of twisted bravery or dedication, that they would do anything to win. i guess they cant see that if that includes breaking the stated rules of the sport, it makes that win worthless.-g

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

ADMIN EDIT: All recent doping related threads started by Steve Zeigman merged back into original thread since they are all relevant and converging on the original topic. Steve, it is not necessary to create a new thread and flood the forum with similar/related topics. If its related to doping, why not just discuss it here? If you don't want to discuss doping anymore as you said, why create thread after new thread about it?

Again, we have absolute proof that athletes have repeatedly beaten the system, without getting "the A and B sample" testing positive. Why do you refuse to acknowledge facts? It only makes your argument weaker.

[steve zeigman]

The simple answer Gary is I don't know! 

You need to ask someone who tested positive how it effected them! 

I never tested positive.  I lifted alone in my basement, by myself, with me as my coach and planner until I went to the airport and joined the team for travel to a nationals.  That's the truth. Isn't that clear enough?

BTW: I gave the lead info originally with what Bob Hise Sr. II told me about what the unpublished UCLA research study showed.

Anything else about York, or lifters from the past, who never tested positive is hearsay, unsupported, unsubstantiated, undocumented finger pointing slanderous nonsense...AND I WON'T PARTICIPATE IN IT!!!   

[steve zeigman]

Chris wrote: "Again, we have absolute proof that athletes have repeatedly beaten the system, without getting "the A and B sample" testing positive. Why do you refuse to acknowledge facts?

If you have the "ABSOLUTE PROOF" about any athlete beating the system then the method you have for gathering the proof needs to be adopted to the current testing system so we can get them out while their active. Name the person? Give the fact? Who was in this 2008 Olympic competition that tested negative but was positive...

I want them gone...why can't you face that fact.  It's all about the facts!! All about the proof!!!

You're on the inside I'm not. Don't tell me about it...turn them in with your absolute proof evidence.

GET THEM GONE FAIR AND SQUARE AND LEGAL!

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Steve,

Gary didn't accuse you of anything. He just asked you if you have used. I get asked that all the time and I simply say no. Answer or not, its totally your choice- no need to freak out. Perhaps this topic just upsets you too much to discuss. And as for proof, I already the cited the case of Marion Jones and the Clear abusers, East Germany, and the Soviets. Tell me which example you dispute, and I will provide the proof. None of their systematic doping was detected by the system or the "A and B" but were proven beyond any reasonable doubt.

[Roman Hunt]

Roman Hunt:
Sorry to Say, but that is just stupid! So you mean that if you've done ONE stupid thing, your proffesional life just have to be over?

When you get caught in using doping, you sre not allowed to perform the sport for 2 years, and you will be under constant control, and after 2 years, what you once have gained by the use of doping is LONG GONE!!!

It's fair to give people a secound chance!

This is a strength sport and you can never guarantee that those gains aren't maintained.

I used to live in DC. I have seen the scramble for jobs there that require clearance. You'd be blown away at how many people are turned down from their desired professions due to ONE STUPID THING (ESPECIALLY DOPE!) in their past.

For the recordI think it's fair to give a second chance too. I made the statement for the sake of conversation and because I dont believe the gains just disappear. A man's strength / physique gained during periods of elevated testosterone during his developmental stages follow him throuought his life slowly dwindling. Why would gear be any different? It took Arnold over 10 years to deflate!

[steve zeigman]

I have answered Gary again and again. I am not freaked out. My answer to him and the information he wants about steroid effects, including where to get more information, has been made clear to him over and over! If he doesn't understand it I don't know why?

FYI Let's talk about the testing today, not the East Germans and Soviets from 20 years ago, or Marion Jones from, I don't know, 12 years ago.

Or are you saying the testing has not evolved?  And if the tests have not evolved and are being beaten then you have nothing you can do about it, accept to convict, suspend, and ban athletes without the freedom right to due process. Is that what your suggesting...no due process? And just who would be making these selected convictions. suspensions, and banning without due process?