Topic: Editorial: Casey at Bat- The Innocent Punished

[Dave Almeida]

I was under the impression that it was the IOC and WADA's responsibility to conduct doping tests during the Olympic Games since it is the IOC's event. The world championships are run by the IWF, therefore it is their job to collaborate with WADA to do doping controls. Why is it solely upon the IWF to do doping controls at the Olympic Games? That makes no sense from any sports perspective. Do you think that if you left the decision up to track and field to do their own doping tests at the olympics that they wouldnt let people get away with it to break records and get more publicity for their sport? WADA and the IOC must have been testing athletes. Maybe the IWF pulled out their tests because the athletes were getting tested enough already by WADA and it was a waste of money?

Also it doesn't make sense that these athletes weren't tested. For the most part they did not lift weights near that of what was done in the rampant drug era when people showed up to competitions juiced (88 Olympics with Naim and Zakh and Guenchev).

 It has been reported that there were scientists working around the clock in Beijing processing the tests of athletes. So apparently everyone was tested but weightlifting? That's bull****. How did Razoronov get caught? There were reports that Andrei Aramnau was tested multiple times before competing. There were thousands tests performed even before the completion of the Olympic games. Is Dennis saying none of those were weightlifting? Maybe he was too busy having his paid vacation to understand what was going on. The IOC and WADA need to get their act together if they had no idea about a cancellation of tests.  What is WADA's responsibility other than anti doping? Nothing. On the biggest stage in the world they should know what is going on and need to pull their heads out of the sand and do their jobs.

It is convenient for the President of the USAW to point fingers about other things wrong with the IWF right now as he screwed up big time and is responsible for Casey being deceived because he never got anything in writing. Any businessman knows that you need to get statements like that in writing before announcing them. I mean, hes dealing with politicians, what do you expect. GET IT IN WRITING. He already has people distracted by turning this thread from a defend Casey thread into one against the IWF for doping. Yes point the finger, you did nothing wrong.

Sure the IWF is a joke when it comes to doping. So are the track and field and cycling and swimming organizations. You want your sport to be seen by millions and have fans? You need big time performances that will make athletes into stars. You want that you need drugs in this day of maximized human performance. How did baseball put fans back in the seats at record levels? Drugs.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Dave,

A few clarifications for you. There was supposed to be pre-testing of the weightlifters, conducted by the IWF- they advertised this and then withdrew their promise despite making the athletes show up early (sound familiar?). This never had anything to do with WADA though they are of course concerned for obvious reasons, like the fact some countries were tipped off ahead of time they would be canceled and others were not, etc. Post competition testing was done for all sports of course, testing in compliance with WADA code, but this is much less of a deterrent than pre and post testing. WADA is responsible for harmonizing doping code and at this point does not regulate IWF doping policy though in November they will report on sport compliance with the code which could result in sanctions for the IWF/weightlifting. I don't see the legitimacy of the argument that Dennis is falsely pointing fingers when it is FACT that the pre-testing was advertised as proof of the IWF's commitment to clean sport and they then canceled it. If you believe they canceled it because it is unnecessary, I have a few bridges to sell you, and of course this raises the question of why they promised it and advertised it as proof of their anti-doping efforts in the first place. I also note they have not announced they canceled it- just bad PR of course. The argument that Dennis should have gotten Ajan's commitment for a 3rd slot in writing is of course valid. He and Dragomir tried and Ajan reneged on his word. In fact, Ajan promised the slot three different times, and as was stated, was told to put Casey in the Games by the IOC and then took him out citing the rule preventing additions after the start list was finalized, a rule not present in many other sports, an IWF rule HE could have ignored/eliminated if HE wanted as demonstrated by his past actions of doing the exact same thing. Obviously, they know full well Ajan is untrustworthy. In all likelihood, Ajan is probably not truly the man in charge but is more likely a puppet of people behind the scenes.

[Laurent Goyette]

For weeks now you have talked about the so-called Caseygate. What happened to Casey as a person is horrible, I wouldn't wish that to my worst enemies. However you direct a lot of rage towards Tamas Ajan, perhaps he did promised the third spot but you are distracting yourselves from the real issue. The poor performances of the men's team in the santo domingo and chiang-mai are the real issue. Instead of looking at yourself and saying that poor Casey got punished for the bomb outs of others. Tamas ajan is the big bad guy who was on personnal vengeance on Casey! Instead of looking at the qualifing procedures that were modified numerous times. You think the whole system is messed up. Now maybe USA deserved more spots than what you got. If you didnt get them it was due to the poor competitions at the worlds not because of tamas ajan's unwillingness to give you one more spot!

[Dave Almeida]

Chris,
   My real argument, other than the emotional garbage I spewed before is: how can anyone in WADA or the IOC expect a sport to do all the proper doping checks on their own? That is just stupid in my opinion. What sport doesn't want records broken? A sport, like Shaun said, that relies so much on strength and speed which drugs like steroids are perfect for, will always let it fly under the radar. It keeps the sport interesting when people are lifting big weights. What does it say if everyone lifted equal to what would be lifted at US nationals at the olympics? No one would want to see it.

Let me clarify-I am not saying this is moral in sports. What I am saying is that you can't expect to trust ANY sports organization to do its own testing where drugs play a big role in performance. Again, look at baseball. They turned away while everyone was doping because deep down they knew it would bring the sport back. The only reason there is legitimate testing is because congress stepped in. Of course baseball would have done testing on their own eventually to make it seem legitimate but it would have been just enough to appease the general public. That is basically what weightlifting does. Enough testing and enough busts to make everyone think the winners are clean because they don't get busted. Again, whether this is moral or not really isn't the point im trying to make. The bottom line is WADA should put itself to use and do some testing. I guarantee you that Usain Bolt got a free pass in testing the same way weightlifters did (assuming that no one was tested before the meet).

Still, to me, the majority of numbers don't indicate that people were injecting test suspension every day until 2 days before the meet so they could still hit enormous type training lifts and it would be out of their system in time for the post competition test. The numbers, except for a handful of outliers, tell me that it was a normal cycle off the drugs before the big meet and testing type of deal. No lifters did anything abnormal. Most were well under their training bests during the competition. Even Aramnau was considerably under his reported training bests of 210/250.

Finally, how does Dennis know that certain delegations were tipped off? Did he get the Chinese coach drunk and he admitted it at the bar? That seems like pure speculation to me. I'm not doubting that those sorts of things have happened in weightlifting's past. Heck, they may still happen right now. But to come out and say it with no proof when you are taking heat for screwing one of your lifters over makes you sound like a sour grape and I question his motives as a result.

Hopefully that clears up my stance a bit on the issue.




Since Laurent posted while I was typing this I would like to add something. I hope every coach that reads this in the USAW that thinks they know how to develop athletes takes a long hard look at their training methodologies. When they rant and rave on goheavey about how we need more recruitment and better athletes in the sport they are full of it. The Georgian Weightlifting Federation is almost non existent yet Ivane Grikurovi continues to produce elite athletes and champions with almost no recruitment. He has to train his lifters in Poland because there are no adequate gyms in Georgia. Please coaches, stop whining and figure out how to get your athletes better, I hear way too much blaming only the athletes for their lack of ability and the USAW for recruitment policies. Sure they could be better, but take a lesson from Mr. Grikurovi and be more concerned about getting the job done in any means possible or just stop complaining.  If you are a club that only cares about introducing kids to the sport and having fun that is fine. This is more to the people who blame others as to why they cant produce elite athletes.

Bulgaria had 6000 total lifters in its prime. Do not say we need 100k+ like China to compete. That simply is not the case. Take 5-10 good athletes at the age of 11-13, give them to Ivane Grikurovi or Enver Turkileri and I almost gurantee in less than 10 years you will have atleast 1 world and olympic champion. What coach in the USAW can get that done?  I can tell you how many and the number is similar to a goose egg in shape.

Note: Enver Turkileri was the coach of Naim and almost all the of top Turkish lifters that began their training in Bulgaria. He raised them up from nothing and now consults with Kazakhstan after taking Turkey to the elite status in weightlifting.  If you wonder why Turkey has faltered since the 2004 Olympics, look no further than Enver Turkileri no longer coaching them.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Laurent,

I did in fact speak out against the qualifying procedures being changed in the middle of the qualification period. And, I have repeatedly spoken out against the subjective and constantly changed and manipulated qualifying system in favor of a truly objective system based on the Golden Standard, which I am slightly optimistic will be embraced before the next Olympic qualification period begins. I also have conceded the USA did not perform up to its ability in the qualification process. But, these things in no way justify the failures of the IWF to enforce its own rules related to doping and the qualification system, let alone the deception and corruption which affects far more than just Casey Burgener. He is but one victim of an unjust system that has been escalating in its injustice over a 20 year period.

Dave,

I have said before and say again that a bigger factor toward making our sport fun to watch is having great contests and much less the amount of weight on the bar. With a level playing field, you will have more close contests and much closer contests, and depth will increase dramatically as the potential for fair competition increases. And, the weight is relative to the dope status of the lifter so that big weights are still lifted, just less than the fake doped lifts. I agree completely that the IWF should not be trusted with doing the drug testing! They are obviously untrustworthy, but WADA has no authority to take it over. This is a misunderstanding of the role of WADA that many have. Basically, you are simply ceding the argument- that the system is broken. We are in agreement. I disagree that people would not want to watch only clean lifters. As for most of the lifting being completely non-dope influenced, I think you are way off the mark. Most are using less drugs than they would if they could, but the vast majority of the medalists are dopers. The fact they lifted less than their training bests is of no meaning at all. As for Dennis reporting some nations were tipped off that the pre-testing was canceled, this has been confirmed to me by 3 different sources, and not all Americans. It really shouldn't be surprising, just par for the course with the IWF. I disagree that recruitment and infrastructure are not serious limitations to weightlifting development in the USA. And, we do need more and better coaches on average than we have, though we have some very good ones. But, the primary issue is doping. Doping means our lifters will never have a level playing field, will never have access to the rewards of success, and therefore reduces our numbers, dedication, and hope (critical) of our lifters. I recall people saying Abajiev was going to save weightlifting in the USA, among a long list before him, and I see no production. One coach imported would change absolutely nothing on the large scale though I am sure they will produce great lifters relative to competition here. 20 "elite" foreign coaches would likewise only increase depth, not narrow the gap between dopers and non-dopers significantly.

[Dave Almeida]

I did not mean that lifters weren't doping. They clearly are. All the top lifters are. But what I did mean is that they aren't coming in to the contest juiced up like they used to in the 80's with syringes basically sticking out of them before they walked on to the platform. If they are it is undetectables, which I doubt every top lifter at the contest had access to. Therefore, the next key deterrent would be OOC testing. The current athletes cycle off the drugs in time for the metabolites to leave their system so by the time of the contest they are no longer detectable. Their lifts are down slightly as a result which was my point about no one being near their training lifts. We've discussed this in other threads of course. I don't want to get off topic, just clarifying that statement.

Obviously the system is broken. The problem here is I don't think the system will get any better unless outside organizations step in and force all sporting organizations to have a certain doping code. I guess the IOC can do that, but will they? This can't just be for weightlifting as legal issues would arise and other sports are just as guilty as weightlifting in the cheating department. You mentioned that WADA will be reviewing policies. The only way to clear this mess up is for them to say "OK you guys fail, you need to do enact this list of doping policies and enforce them to be in the next Olympic games". Then they simply monitor the situation and if the IWF does do it, which of course they would to stay in the Olympics, then the situation would be slightly better. I still don't think there is funding worldwide for every country to be doing stringent OOC testing though so the situation would only be slightly better for Americans in my opinion. Personally, I know some people disagree with this, but I think we are past the point of no return with doping in sports. It will never be cleaned up completely.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Dave,

I agree almost completely. Just a couple little points. Those that are using undetectables will not be caught by OOC testing as long as the substances they are using are undetectable. The only way to catch them is through police type investigations (eavesdropping, search and seizure, etc) looking at trafficking, distribution networks, etc, which is the new wave of anti-doping efforts and appears to be very effective for the amount of time and money spent on it so far. It appears these efforts are growing and growing more systematic and better funded. Those that are timing their cycles to beat the test are the most vulnerable to being caught through OOC testing, hence we have a battle between the haves and have-nots among dopers beginning to draw battle lines.

Your prescription for reform is dead on and is exactly what WADA is charged with doing- force adoption of an effective, strict, and fair anti-doping code. They will be completing a compliance review in November and weightlifting will be forced to adopt the code or face sanctions, and very possibly expulsion from the Olympics. But, as you said, it still is a matter of the fox guarding the henhouse. Thus we HAVE to get the current IWF President, who has shown outright approval of doping, OUT!

[Mike Wittmer]

Chris, do you think there is a good reason for your "source" to stay anonymous?

Its multiple sources, and no, I don't think their reasoning is legitimate. I think it is time to stand and fight! Of course, I have thought that for years. Still, never before have so many people agreed with me in that regard and I smell blood!

Do you think the USAW officials will eventually explain, to the membership, what happened?

No. But, I feel I can expose everything anyway, and more. I have some big leads and avenues to do so and intend to put massive pressure on the status quo. Please, just give me two weeks.

Chris, any news?