Topic: "Clean" 200/245

[Andy Dick]

Ill do 200/245 clean or die trying 

hahaha :P

[Dirk Wilcke]

So somebody posted this on goheavy:

"As to the rest of them...all the Weightlifters world wide, except for USA and maybe Canada?, are all positive anyway, even if they test negaitve, since all those that test negative are all beating the tests anyway."

http://goheavy.com/forums/olympic/index.cgi/read/131597

I responded essentially with the same response I had used in this thread (except for the Steiner reference, which was only relevant in the context of this thread):

So what's the direction of inference here? Weight is heavier than done by US lifters -> Guy must be on roids?

I obviously have no idea whether Steiner is clean or not. I am not associated with him, his coaches or anybody else in his circle of influence and even if I was, I would not probably not know. I would not be in the least surprised if he uses restoratives that are not allowed. However, it is usually implied in this forum and others that US lifters are clean. This could be because there is a lot of testing going on in the US, or because Americans are of a higher moral caliber than other athletes. I am assuming the former. In this case, I think it should be allowed to retain the presumption of innocence for other athletes that are being tested a lot. Or is it assumed that US lifters are clean because they are not competitive at the highest level?

and the post didn't even make it past the moderators. So I would just like to make posters that may be frequenting both forums aware that discussions on that forum may be pretty biased. Don't know if this interests anybody. Not try to stir ****, if this post comes accross like this, just delete it. Oh, and go Steiner 

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I say American lifters are clean because there is too much OOC testing to use detectable drugs and not enough money/incentive in the sport to purchase undetectables.

[Dirk Wilcke]

American lifters may be clean, I'm not disputing that. But simply stating without proof that EVERYBODY outside the US is using doesn't make any sense, not least because the notion that American lifters are not using is based on good faith and deduction given certain assumptions (see your argument), not factual evidence (which would be impossible to attain).

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

But simply stating without proof that EVERYBODY outside the US is using doesn't make any sense,

Who said that? Quote?

[Dirk Wilcke]

But simply stating without proof that EVERYBODY outside the US is using doesn't make any sense,

Who said that? Quote?

Read my post above your previous response.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Oh, that was SteveZ, right? He is just being sarcastic. He believes the testing is 100% foolproof. 

[GabrielNagy]

Hm... 

I just don't understand one thing. The majority of athletes WW are going to US officially to study etc. (but to not be blind it is also because of best drugs - just to mention the top Oly Sports swimmers, track&field ... ). They are also tested very frequently. The drug business is on top level in US just think about NFL, NBA, NHL ... . On the other hand those guys earn more $$$ than weightlifters.
 
Every top level athlete is on juice and we who train should know it -> the performances on the top level are far away from natural doesn't matter if he/she is from US or Congo.

I have a better question a bit closer to reality.
What do you think how many lifter can clean&jerk 216kg clean ... yes clean&jerk?

My cents.