Topic: Lockout rule & release rule

[John Way]

Hi folks, at lot of people have had issues with the lockout rule, personally I believe a pressout that is very quick and slight angle should be passed, whilst any significant slow pressout should not be passed. I see this as a safety issue as lifters may injure themselves and refs do have some duty of care responsibility to the lifter.

Secondly release of bar should be shoulder level not waist as most Internationals (esp elite) already release from shoulder and at best chest level, to have to lower the bar after a lift beyond some basic control is crazy and just increases wear and tear in the lifter, and makes refereeing harder as the bar travels fast downwards.

So whats your 2 cents on these issues?? 

By the way , last year after 10 years of refereeing I obtained my Cat II International License.

[Shaun Le Conte]

I agree with overlooking minor pressouts however I wouldn't want a successful jerk or snatch to become something that referees have to debate. To me, however the rules are written it should be quite clear what is a jerk and what isn't.

Do the rules actually state that the bar has to be lowered using muscular effort to waist height?

This is what the rule states:
"2.3.3 After the referees signal to lower the barbell, the lifter must lower it in front of
the body and not let it drop either deliberately or accidentally. The grip on the
barbell may be released when it has passed the level of the waist."

The only change I would make at this point is to further define "not let it drop deliberately".

[vic davy]

THE PRESSOUT RULE SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!
IT IS ARBITRARILY ENFORCED AND MAKES NO SENSE.
IF A LIFTER CAN JERK OR PRESS THE WEIGHT TO ARMS LENGTH AND BRING IT UNDER CONTROL, GOOD LIFT!

VIC DAVY

[Jim Hooper]

The pressout rule is dumb, but its the rule, at least for now.  What I hate when refereeing is having to make the judgment about movements that are really absorption by the shoulder/scapula, and not really "pressing" anything out at all -- and as you know if you compete much, plenty of zebras will redlight you even on that.

I don't think the lowering rule is all that bad -- its no big deal to keep the hands on the bar down to about waist height, nobody expects anybody to actually lower the thing.  That said, I have seen one lifter -- at the JO meet two years ago, who dislocated his thumb when he kept his hands on way down low and the bar bounced up and knocked his thumb out of joint.  You see lifters, especially internationally, that will literally just turn it loose overhead and walk away, and they seemingly never get called.  Its important when American lifters see that on videos that they realize they will often get no-lifted for it in US meets.  I just tell mine to cut it loose when their arms pass horizontal, which never gets called.

[Mike Wittmer]

I never pressed out a weight.  I was not strong enough.  One could argue that it is harder to complete a lift with a pressout than without.  If I were to change the rule I'd consider allowing the lift if the bar hits lockout and then rebounds somewhat and an elbow slightly bends.  I would not allow a weight to be short of lockout, stall only to be pressed out. 

As for lowering the bar, I don't see the problem.  It takes no energy to keep your hands on the bar and follow, or guide, it down.  It would probably be better for the equipment if the lifter made an effort to keep the bar from an uneven descent.   

[Shaun Le Conte]

What concerns me about allowing any sort of pressout would be what might happen at lower levels of lifting. At the international level everyone would agree that you can jerk more thsn you can press, so nobody is going to intentionally press a weight up.

At the provincial/state level, where there are actually people that can press as much as they jerk, due to poor form, I can see some really poor habits being enforced.

I agree, the slight bouncing in and out of place that Jim and Mike describe shouldn't be infractions.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I think I have said before that I see nothing productive whatsoever in the press-out rule. Our sport needs to become more fan friendly- faster, with far more action and far less deadtime. The press out rule alienates the crowd and is totally pointless in my opinion. I think the refs have to have a bunch of rules (whether necessary or not) to justify their existence, their trips to meets, their importance, their status, etc.

I like the rules as is as far as dropping the weight but agree with Shaun about better phrasing "not let it drop deliberately".

[Jim Hooper]

I guess I shouldn't have said the pressout rule is "dumb" in that there probably is a rationale for it in terms of safety -- catching big weights on joint strength instead of exposing little elbow tendons to them and so on.  I have not seen anybody get injured catching a lift short (they typically just lose it or press it out) but I have read at least one account of an injury (torn tricep) in Drechsler's book.  Is that really an issue somebody has seen that would justify the difficulty in enforcing the pressout rule fairly?  Could be I suppose.