Topic: Making Progressions

[Stephen Georgiou]

Hi there. Ive been getting a little depressed lately about my lack of progress in the lifts...specifically progress in the amount of weight i can lift. I can feel that I have made fantastic progress in form/technique, but that hasnt yet transfered over to lifting more weight. For example, several months ago 50kg was my max snatch, and that lift was UGLY! The other day i managed 50kg for 10 great feeling lifts. 52.5kg felt good, but i couldnt make 55kg. So essentially, I have improved by just 2.5kg on my lousy 50kg over the course of many months.

I understand and beleive in the idea of technique, technique, technique...and keeping weight relatively low so as to drill in fantastic habits/technique/speed etc. That approach is definately working in terms of skill development. But im curious if my lack of progress in the amount of weight i can lift is becuase i dont challenge myself often enough with 'heavy' weight?

I wanted to know how you guys make progress/ how often you train light/fast, and how often you go 'heavy'. Also interested in any other opinions you guys might have.

Cheers!!

[Paul LaDuke]

I can only think of 3 reasons that a lifter is not making progress:

1.  Not working consistently enough.

2.  Overtraining - working out too heavy, too often.

3.  Not working with enough variety in intensity, density, exercise variation, etc.


Currently, I have been using the Dube Brothers Direct Training of the Weightlifter Plan that they have written.  It can be found here.  In that program, you perform a heavy workout about every 10 days.

[Stephen Georgiou]

Hi Paul. thanks for the response. I should probably have incuded a little of how my training currently looks!

The last few weeks I have been doing the following:
(bearing in mind my maxs: snatch=52.5kg Clean=70kg)

Tuesday: 10x 40kg snatch, 10x 50kg clean
Thursday: 10x 45kg snatch, 10x 55kg clean
Saturday: 10x 50kg snatch, 10x 60kg clean

warmups involve 5mins skipping, a little stretching, bodysquats, front squats with empty bar, overhead squats with empty bar. A little more stretching. Snatch drops, then snatches at low weights gradually increasing to the day's working weight.

I usually finish off workouts with front, or back, or overhead squats at various intensities depending on how i feel that day.

With regard to jerks, im currently not doing them cause i can *press* the weight i clean with and so feel that im better off focussing my energy on bettering my cleans (at least for the time being).

On top of that, i 'play' with rings (dips, chinups, muscle ups, levers) about twice a week, and rock climb (bouldering) about once a week. I occasionally run (various distances/intesities ranging from 400m sprints to 3miles) when i feel in the mood (usually every couple of weeks).

I feel that im in line with my recovery abilities, but i am probably also not able to squeeze more in without suffering for it.   

I guess the next thing i should supply you with is video footage. Im working on it...no idea who i can get to film me in my 'bodybuilder's'/posers gym)

[Paul LaDuke]

What is your body weight? 
How old are you? 
How much experience do you have weight training? 
How much time have you spent weightlifting?
The typical workout that you posted as "10x40kg" mean 10 single attempts at 40kg?

For filming purposes, I use a tripod, start recording, perform a rep, stop recording.  I then only capture the video footage of my lifts and not me walking to the platform and setting up my lift.  It would be great to get some footage of you.

[Chuck Lopez]

Hi there. Ive been getting a little depressed lately about my lack of progress in the lifts...specifically progress in the amount of weight i can lift. I can feel that I have made fantastic progress in form/technique, but that hasnt yet transfered over to lifting more weight. For example, several months ago 50kg was my max snatch, and that lift was UGLY! The other day i managed 50kg for 10 great feeling lifts. 52.5kg felt good, but i couldnt make 55kg. So essentially, I have improved by just 2.5kg on my lousy 50kg over the course of many months.

I understand and beleive in the idea of technique, technique, technique...and keeping weight relatively low so as to drill in fantastic habits/technique/speed etc. That approach is definately working in terms of skill development. But im curious if my lack of progress in the amount of weight i can lift is becuase i dont challenge myself often enough with 'heavy' weight?

I wanted to know how you guys make progress/ how often you train light/fast, and how often you go 'heavy'. Also interested in any other opinions you guys might have.

Cheers!!

weightlifting is a strength sport, your technique can only be so efficient; IMO you're going to have to go somewhat heavy at least once a while, personally I don't think there's much of a training effect unless it's 80% at least, that being said I only go 90%+ percent once a month or so.

[Jim Hooper]

Stephen, 

No need to be depressed.  You are getting better at exactly what you are practicing -- snatching 40-50 kgs, and you've clearly made great improvement there -- great.  I'll assume you have ingrained good basic technique and are ready to start applying it to heavier weights.  As Paul says, it would be good for you to post a video of a representative SN and CJ, so we can tell whether you are ready to work heavier.

Don't just start "training heavier," whatever that may mean to you.  You're likely to end up mostly flailing and undoing some of that technique-ingraining that you've accomplished already.  You are at a transitional point, and you need to make a smooth transition -- keeping the technical side intact, and applying it to heavier weights. 

Assuming you have solid technique at this point, here's one good way for you to get from here to doing solid 60+ snatches on a consistent basis.  This is a great approach for many purposes, and I think it is the best approach by far for your particular situation -- developing lifters who need to make that transition from "drilling" to applying their technique to somewhat heavier (for them) weights.  Its based on the Joe Mills system developed decades ago, which in its pure form is significantly harder than the modified version I'm about to outline for your particular situation.  Don't think its "outdated" -- its tried and true, and used today by a number of the best coaches in the country, e.g., Mike Burgener, Gary Valentine, and others.

It has you continuing to work mostly in technique- and speed-reinforcing lifts with moderate weights that you are already lifting consistently  (75-85% of the volume each workout), combined with 1-6 heavier lifts, where you apply the same technique to progressively heavier weights, turning up the load just one 2.5 kg tick each time (about 15-25% of the volume each workout, depending on how you are lifting that particular day).  You can and should use it on your clean and jerks as well --and you should be doing the full CJ at this point, and not worried too much about the discrepancy, which will even out soon enough if you stay at this sport.  The modification I am making is basically to do only one classic lift per day, so that you have energy left to work hard on back, front, and overhead squats, which are extremely important at your stage of development.  Joe's lifters, who were some of the best the country ever produced, generally just did just SN and CJ, both together, three times per week -- you need keep doing lots of all three fundamental squats as well as the lifts.

Do the following your next 12-15 snatch/CJ workouts.  Train each lift 2 times or three times per week -- as often as you can recover from the previous workout and lift well each time out-- probably twice per week.  Start at a weight that you can absolutely smoke for 5 singles in that first set -- about 60-70%, or, from what you tell us, 40 sounds just about right for you at this point for that first quintuplet

Your normal warmup, including some empty bar or 40-50% lifts, then

1.  40 for 5 singles.  Rest about 1-1.5 mins between reps.  If you miss one with a little error, don't sweat it, keep going and do the next one better.  After the fifth one, add 5 kgs and do
2.  45 for 5 singles.  Rest about a minute or two between reps.  After the fifth one, add 2.5 kgs and do
3.  47.5 for 5 singles.  Rest 1.5-2 mins between reps.  Stop whining, you ain't that tired. Add another 2.5 and do
4.  50 x 1.   At this point, you start counting misses, if any.  If you miss, you can repeat that lift at that load up to twice.  At three misses, stop for the day.  But don't miss it.  Make it and then do:
5.  52.5 x 1.  Same deal.  Do your best, and remember, any third miss is the end of the workout.  If you happen to miss it this time, you'll make that rep the next time, or the time after that, so don't sweat it.
6.  55 x 1.     Same deal.  (If you have made them all to this point, you will start thinking too much, wondering if you can make the 55 -- cut it out -- turn your brain off, see yourself in a tight catch position, hold that image, count to three, and do exactly what you did when you just did 52.5 -- just snatch it.  Learn to love how heavier weights feel and take pride that session by session you are becoming less and less nervous with heavier weights -- "heavy" starts to feel "normal."   You will be "practicing" the mental control of making a "heavy" lift every time out -- after a few sessions, you will stop worrying and just take care of business.)
7.  57.5 x 1.   Same deal.
8.  60 x 1.      Same deal.
9.  62 x 1.      Same deal.

You won't make all 6 of the singles when you start out.  You may make only one or two at first.  But after several weeks -- it may be 3, it may be 7, but it won't be 12 --, you will make all six, and you will be one happy camper.  (If those loads I just outlined are a bit to heavy for you to at least get through the first three groups of five singles in very good form, adjust the whole thing down 2.5 kgs so that you can at least make it past the fives and get into the first 2-3 singles.)   

When you complete all 21 reps with no misses -- and don't be surprised if that happens in 5-6 weeks --, recover and start the whole thing over, adding 2.5 kgs at every step.   Every workout is both a "technique" AND a "heavy" day -- there is just a very small, manageable dose of "heavy" each time -- we are under no illusions that you can start training Bulgarian style and going up into the mid 90s every day -- you can't, nobody at this stage can for long.  Your body will tell you every time out what "heavy" is that particular day --three misses ends it. But you will not thrash and spasticate rep after rep with loads that are too heavy for you to handle on any particular day.  If you want to be more conservative, limit yourself to no more than two misses per day in the last six singles, or one, or none.  Cutting it off at 2 or 3 misses works well in my experience.

Adjust your weekly schedule to make sure you are recovered and ready to fire every training session.   You need to be, as Gary Valentine says "mowing down lift after lift," which will continue to improve and ingrain the correct movement patterns, so it becomes automatic.  Four days per week -- two snatch sessions and two CJ sessions -- would be a good place to start (i.e., SN/OHS, CJ/FS, off, SN/BS, off, CJ/FS, off -- that would be one week's training).  If that's too much, go three days per week, alternating snatch and CJ sessions, and doing the squat for the OPPOSITE lift so you work the critical positions for both lifts every 48-72 hours, either in the lift itself or the corresponding squat (i.e., [Week 1] SN/FS, off, CJ/OHS, off, SN/FS, off, off, [Week 2] CJ/OHS, off, SN/FS, . . .  etc.)  Don't even try lifting this way 5-6 days per week at this stage -- you'll be overtrained and sluggish within 10 days.

Do it and you may be shocked at how soon the 55 you just missed has become an ordinary workup weight. There are other ways to get there from here, of course, but if you were my lifter, this is what you would do, and you'd be snatching 60 without emotional distress within 2-3 months or so.  At that point, you won't be the same lifter (your technique should be much more "automatic" regardless of the relative load), and although we'd still use Mills sequences some of the time, we'd also use other workout structures with it to get you from 60/75 to 80/100.  But you need to get from drills with 40/50 to 60/75.  This is a great way to accomplish that next step.

[Stephen Georgiou]

Thank you all very much for you suggestions. Jim, I have printed out your post and will read it every night and before every workout...something about it has really struck a chord! I really do feel that i have got to that point you mention at which i need to learn to apply good tech to heavier weights.   

Unfortunatley im leaving for holiday in a couple of weeks (for a couple of weeks). So im gonna have to have a little lay off soon (actually i probably need one away from work and training anyway...my mind and body have been pushed for a little too long....i think im even coming down with a cold which i never get!). So i guess ill keep things ticking over until my holiday, and then have several light technical sessions when i return. And then get onto this program you have outlined for me.   

What is your body weight? 
How old are you? 
How much experience do you have weight training? 
How much time have you spent weightlifting?
The typical workout that you posted as "10x40kg" mean 10 single attempts at 40kg?

For filming purposes, I use a tripod, start recording, perform a rep, stop recording.  I then only capture the video footage of my lifts and not me walking to the platform and setting up my lift.  It would be great to get some footage of you.

Thanks Paul

I am somewhere bewteen 80-85kg depending on time of year. Right now i am closer to 80kg (im generally more active outside of gym during the summer). Im relatively lean...no gut or anything, but im not vein popping lean either.

I am 28

I have probably 10 or so years experience of lifting weights in general, but 1.5 years since my very first attempts to learn the snatch and CJ. I have dedicated my training to the olympic lifts for more than 1 year now. 

Yes 10x 40kg means 10 single attempts of 40kg (with probably a minute or two rest between attempts).

Yes i realise that filming will be a great tool...i will take my camera with me next time and see if i can get a bystander to film me perform at least one lift.