Topic: College scholarships, grants, building and supporting clubs

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Glenn Pendlay said:

grants are fine. but if we dont want to keep things just as they are, we for sure better find a way to spend that money in a way that leverages it really well, and spend it towards dramatically increasing our talent pool.

My whole point is that the USAW has no ability to leverage the money they spend on athlete subsidies in any way. There is also no way to do any cost/benefit analysis on money spent on athletes. For instance, say I am able to win the reward money of $500 a month at nationals in a couple weeks. Can the USAW look at my age and decide that giving that money to a 32 year old lifter who has been through 2 surgeries and is nowhere near close to his best ever total a good investment? Can they decide not to give me the money? What if I said I have no intention of competing after that and just want the money until December when I get knocked off the list? Would that change anything? In this case, I plan to spend the money, if I win it, on equipment for my gym to train young kids, so I'd say its a good investment. But, my point is that the system can and is being abused by athletes with no real desire to improve.

A grant system would force everyone who wants money from the USAW to put forth a proposal detailing how the money will be spent and describe what it will accomplish for the USAW in return. The USAW can do a cost-benefit analysis and then decide if it is a good investment. They can make sure, after the money is spent, that it was spent on what it was supposed to be, and can re-examine the project to decide if it merits further funding or not.

For instance, a Glenn Pendlay could put forth a proposal to establish a scholarship program, at one college/university, or a hundred. A Rhys Lucero could put forward a grant request to pay for the top 20-30 athletes identified at the Florida high school weightlifting championships to come to a camp at the Olympic Training Center in the summer, or whatever else he wanted to do to try and recruit this talent. Or, a Rhys Lucero could put forward a grant request to try and get a sport program similar to Florida high school weightlifting in another state.

The possibilities for different grant ideas are endless, and would harness the creative power of anyone willing to get off of their behind and do something positive for the sport.

It's just an idea and I don't put forward that it is the ultimate solution. My hope is that it will stimulate thoughtful, respectful discussion of these controversial issues.

[Steve Gough]

Glenn, Chris and Rhys,

I freely admit that you are way ahead of me in your considerations. I think that Glenn may have something there inre our current budget and where it is used. But, it is the direction you seem to advocate, which is more of a long-range proposition, that does not address what we should all be banging the drum about, the "right now". Consequently, I do not think that any of you answer the question of "what to do" in the meantime, to meaningfully affect the next three years leading up to China in '08? We have fallen far behind the "eight ball" since Atlanta, due, in my estimation, to a total lack and sense of "ugrency" and the requisite accountability that we should all be demanding.

Let us say you are given the mandate (and that mandate should be given) that by the World Championships in 2007 that Team USA must field a team strong enough to guarantee a full team for 2008. Let us add as a caveat that the USOC will further draw back their largess to USAWeightlifting if the desired results aren't forthcoming. That this threat is tantamount to a fight for our survival. And while you are considerating these last two caveats, realize that they are not out of the realm of possibility. The question to me then becomes, "can it be done? and if so, how do we go about doing it with the available talent?" This is where I would like to see our collective talents/efforts put to use.  

You, we are not the BOD of USAWeightlifting. But we all share in this mutually out of our love for our sport and the pride we want to all share in.
I would hope that the BOD would be asking these very same things. I would hope that the members of our BOD would be joining this forum... especially our President. Maybe if those "powers to be" might consider, even for a little bit, that this forum constitutes a "think tank" for USAWeightlifting's future then our efforts may just lead to something more than just talk.

Steve

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Steve Gough said:

I would hope that the BOD would be asking these very same things. I would hope that the members of our BOD would be joining this forum... especially our President. Maybe if those "powers to be" might consider, even for a little bit, that this forum constitutes a "think tank" for USAWeightlifting's future then our efforts may just lead to something more than just talk.

Steve, I have received commitments from several BOD members to join the forum, do interviews, and participate in roundtable discussions.

But, I think we all have to understand that we all want success, and we all may have slightly different ideas on how to accomplish it. I think the key to getting BOD participation and something productive done here is for us to all to listen, respect and understand each other. We must build consensus, and that takes time and patience.

We are all friends in the community. I hope and expect that the fact that all posters must use their real and full names will go a long way toward creating a positive environment and making everyone feel respected and welcome to participate here.

[glennpendlay]

ok steve, heres what i would do in that situation.  you select somewhere in the vicinity of 20-30 males and 20-30 females, all those who you see as having a possibility for real international lifting in 2007.

this group includes old warhorses like pete, as well as promising juniors like kendrik and promising seniors like shankle.  anyone who might realistically be at the required level by 2007-2008.

you bring them together somewhere for a month at the start of this summer, thats say 3-4 weeks away.  lets say they all go to savannah, and they train their butts off for a month under a national team coach.  if possible you make sure there are a couple of lifters in each weight class.  they fight it out for a month.  they have a competition, then they go home.  people who dont perform are warned that they will be replaced if they dont step it up.  the national team coach communicates to each athlete and their coaches what is expected for the next training time, what lifts, improvements, and the training they are going to have to handle.  they train at home for a month or two, then come together again somewhere else, lets say they all go to bozeman for another month long training camp, where they again go balls to the wall for a month, have another competition, and go home again.  again, if people dont perform, they can be eliminated and replaced.

the point is made that we are looking for people who can step up and get to the world level, improve or die.

you repeat this till 2007, weeding down the numbers till 3 months before the worlds you have 12 or 13 men and 10 or 11 women.  by this time things should be worked out pretty well with the athletes personal coaches, and the training the last couple of months is done at another camp setting, with the athletes maybe going home maybe one week a month for rest and recharging the batteries, but most of the last 3 months is spent in training camp.  you might change the venue once or twice during the last 3 months, just for a change of pace.

before worlds, the team coach picks the team based on who will earn the most team points.

thats what id do.

[Steve Gough]

Glenn,

Far as I am concerned you are pretty close to being right on the money. I don't know whether or not the "back and forth" to "home gyms" is the best way or the time spent together. But I could be convinced with a little further thought. It is a bold plan at a time when we need to be bold.

Of course you know where I stand on the training philosophy. That would have to be a major topic of discussion... one, I hope wouldn't "bog down" the idea and retard it from happening. But, you have a great start, much in line with what the Greeks' did prepping for '96 (of course for the most part they started with some real high level lifters). And I agree with not deciding on who lifts till the coach makes the final decision based on the parameters preset.

I will reread your idea again. Like I said it is a great start and would hope  many of us would read it and comment. I  would especially like Jim Schmitz to weigh in, Artie, the BOD and Dennis. I feel that it is "that important".

Again, Glenn, good start.

Steve

[glennpendlay]

well, i think the most important part of the "training plan" is competition and looking hard for results.

if there is the sense of urgency that you talk about, and the right atmosphere, i dont know if it matters whether you do 3 sets of 3 on the front squat 3 days a week, or singles six days a week.

at least we agree that the training should be hard and intense and the push for increased results should be there right from the start.

i emphasise a good communication between personal coaches and national coaches for this reason...  who is to say it would be a good thing to completely and totally change the training of kendrick farris?  he has made great progress in the past year doing kyles training program.  putting him in a competitive and brutal situation for a month at a time would be a good thing, immedietly and totally changing his training plan might not.

i like a little of the back and forth for several reasons.  i dont know if anyone can take the mental strain of a "training camp" atmosphere indefinately...  you put someone in it for years of a time and the atmosphere breaks down into something more normal.  

i can tell you that i would like to see donny shankle and trey goodwin together in a dormatory somewhere where all they had to think about was lifting for a month.  their best totals are within just a couple of sinclair points of each other, and i think both would face death and laugh in order to come out of that month on top.

you look at promising lifters like this, i think that knowing them its obvious what they need to find out whether or not they "have it" or not.  if i had the money i would buy a cabin out on one of the lakes near here, put a platform outside and just drive them out there with plenty of food and a cell phone for 2 weeks then come  back and pick them up when it was done.  they would either be dead or improved.

thats why i am excited about kyle gulledge coming down here, when he left after his last visit, he said his goal in life was to make donny look weak, donny knows kyle is stronger but would walk through fire to keep from being embarrassed.  kyle might be what donny needs to achieve that next 20k on his total.

[glennpendlay]

steve, one other thought.  any time a young stud goes away into a new situation with new people, the first thing that happens is a fight for dominance.  whos going to be the alpha male and who will wilt under pressure.  thats a reason why i like the aspect of going to new places periodically, going for a while and coming home.  you let the guys fight it out for a while then come back to a more normal and secure environment to rest a little and recharge the mental batteries, then you throw them into the fight again.

this assures that people dont actually kill themselves, and keeps the novelty of the situation, so that when they go to training camp, the fight or flight response is again stimulated.

its like with my young guys.  i have a 14 year old new lifter who is a 52k guy, did 52/67 at our last meet here, name of sean street.  hes getting a little cocky, not pushing as hard as he could i think because of his beating the other guys he trains with.  so i switched his training time to evening and put him on the platform with jacob scott, who is 15 years old, and either a 52 or 56 depending on how much he has eaten, and he did 67/80 at our last meet.  and i basically said hang in there or die.  jacob isnt stronger, just more guts.  he can clean and jerk it if he can back squat it for a set of 5, and i swear snatch it if he can get it to his waist. so sean has to step up or step down.

[Steve Gough]

Glenn,

I do not have a problem with any of this. Changing venues... absolutely. The more we challenge the greater the chance the true champions will respond. Everyone gets there chance.

Who else wants to step up to the plate? Is this not a worthy discussion?

Steve