Topic: Is It Legal?

[Jesse Reynolds]

On Saturday Chris Lenahen broke six Florida Schoolage State Records.  After reviewing the videos there has been some question as to whether or not the lifts were legal.  I would appreciate any input.

113 Snatch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKBAEhC2BiY

147 C&J

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-P7LmgVLqk

[Shaun Le Conte]

 I'm not stating my opinion here just pointing out with copy and paste all relevant rules from the IWF technical document
http://www.iwf.net/iwf/doc/technical.pdf

2.1 THE SNATCH
2.1.1 The barbell is placed horizontally in front of the lifter's legs. It is gripped,
palms downwards and pulled in a single movement from the platform to the
full extent of both arms above the head, while either splitting or bending the
legs. During this continuous movement, the barbell may slide along the thighs
and the lap.

2.2.1 The first part, the Clean:
The barbell is placed horizontally in front of the lifter's legs. It is gripped,
palms downwards and pulled in a single movement from the platform to the
shoulders, while either splitting or bending the legs. During this continuous
movement, the barbell may slide along the thighs and the lap.

2.3.2 In all lifts, the referees must count as “No lift” any unfinished attempt in which
the barbell has reached the height of the knees.

2.4 INCORRECT MOVEMENTS AND POSITIONS FOR ALL LIFTS
2.4.1 Pulling from the hang.

2.5 INCORRECT MOVEMENTS FOR THE SNATCH
2.5.1 Pause during the lifting of the barbell.

[Matt Foreman]

I'd have to double-check the rulebook on this one, but I think that's a legal lift.  The rules (just from memory) say that you can't stop the bar during the pull, but I think that only applies if the bar has passed your knees.  I know for sure that a lifter can start pulling and, if the bar has not passed the knees, the lifter can set the bar back down and start the lift over again.  The clock keeps running and there are no red lights.  The clock isn't even supposed to stop until the bar passes the knees.  Several lifters have started the pull, dropped the bar at mid-shin, and then attempted the lift again.  It's legal.

Again, I don't have a rulebook right in front of me.  Somebody can correct me with a quote if I'm wrong.  But I think this is a legal lift.

Regardless, this kid's technique is incredibly inefficient and somebody needs to teach him to lift correctly.  I know he's lifting good weights now, but he could be doing a hell of a lot more if he had proper form.  If he uses this technique at a national meet, I can almost guarantee that there will be judging problems.  I also think this technical problem will eventually lead to some much bigger technical (and physical) problems.  

[Paul LaDuke]

Jesse,

From the USAW rule book on the USAW website:

The Snatch
2.1.1    The barbell is placed horizontally in front of the lifter's legs. It is gripped, palms downwards and pulled in a single movement from the platform to the full extent of both arms above the head, while either splitting or bending the legs. During this continuous movement, the bar may slide along the thighs and the lap. No part of the body other than the feet may touch the platform during the execution of the lift. The weight, which has been lifted, must be maintained in the final motionless position, arms and legs extended, the feet on the same line, until the referees give the signal to replace the barbell on the platformI would say the lifts are not legal and should have been declared a no lift.  

The Clean and Jerk
2.2.1    The first part, the Clean: The bar is placed horizontally in front of the lifter's legs.    It is gripped, palms downward and pulled in a single movement from the platform to the shoulders, while either splitting or bending the legs. During this continuous movement, the bar may slide along the thighs and the lap. The bar must not touch the chest before the final position. It then rests on the clavicles or on the chest above the nipples or on the arms fully bent. The feet return to the same line, legs straight before performing the Jerk. The lifter may make this recovery in his own time and have his feet on the same line, parallel to the plane of the trunk and the barbell.



In both lifts the athlete picks the bar up just a few inches, pauses, sets his back and then performs the lift without returning the bar to the platform to restart.  The snatch rule states the bar must move in a continuous movement and the clean rule states the bar must move in a single movement.  The lifter in question violates the rules of the lifts.  I would rule them both no lifts.

There is a provision for a lifter to restart a lift if the bar has not reached the knees but the lifter would have to reset the bar to the platform and start completely over within the time allowed.  I have never seen an athlete attempt to restart a lift even though it is in the rules.    

I do think the lifts are great lifts and the athlete needs to get rid of that little tick at the start of the lift.  He should be a great lifter in the near future as those are some great numbers!

[Jim Storch]

Did the weights touch the floor again before he actually started the lifts?  I can't tell from the video.  If no then they were from the hang and that would mean no lift.  If they touched the floor again before he started his continuous movement then good lifts.

Whether good lift or no lift-
the bottom line is...
fix it.

[Matt Foreman]

This kid's lifts bring up an interesting point with the rulebook.  As Paul wrote, the rulebook clearly uses the language "single movement" and "continuous movement."  But it's also clear that a lifter can stop and re-start the lift if the bar hasn't passed the knees.  I've seen this done at the Nationals, American Open, and even the World Championship (don't remember the exact lifter that did it, but I definitely remember seeing it).  This kid didn't set the bar back down on the platform, but the bar also didn't pass his knees.

If I would have been sitting in a judges chair, I would have red-lighted the lifts.  If a coach took me to task and really pushed for rulebook clarification, I would quote the paragraphs that Paul cited above.  But then if the next lifter in the meet started the pull, set the bar back down before it passed his knees, with the clock still running, and then started the lift over and completed a three-white light lift, the coach could present an argument that I wouldn't be certain about.  I'm not a category one referee, but I've been doing this for about 20 years now and I've refereed dozens of meets.  Interesting issue.

[Shaun Le Conte]

Here's the only time I've ever seen a lifter pick the bar up, set it down and then lift it again at an international meet (World University Championships) in Montreal.

Julien Galipeau, 85 kg lifter lifting 180 kg clean & jerk 3rd attempt in front of a local crowd.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Matt Foreman]

That's exactly what I'm talking about.  The clock continued to run and he got three white lights in front of international referees.

Obviously, there's a difference between his lift and the lifts of the kid in question.  Once Julien started the lift (the completed version), he didn't stop the pull at any point.  The kid stopped his pull at mid-shin.  So the kid's pull definitely wasn't a "continuous movement" as the rulebook requires.  But if the lift hasn't passed the knees, doesn't that make it the same situation as Julien's attempt, according to the language of the rulebook?