Topic: How American Lifters Would Fare in European Champs -- Not Too Bad

[Jim Hooper]

Results of the recently completed European Championships here:
 
http://www.iwf.net/iwf/events/results/results_e2.php?placecod=17#men

Can't help but notice that a number of our best male lifters 77s-up would place in the 5th-10th range in this field with their usual "good day" totals. 

[Shaun Le Conte]

Likewise I note that Canadian women, in their best moments, would be on the podium at this year's Euros :)

I of course will remain on the couch with a bag of cheesies.

[Rob Macklem]

You're kidding right????

Um... the US is getting buried alive in weightlifting.
It goes like this using 2008 US nationals, the US men would place:
56 kg 13th place....but 22kg below 12th place
62 kg 8th
69 kg 14th
77 kg 11th
85 kg 19th
94 kg 9th
105kg 11th
supers 12th

After just being at the Europeans this was actually on my list of things to do. I knew it was bad...but I never thought it was this bad. The US doesn't even have to go the Europe to get buried...Cuba and more than a few South American countries are kicking their butt.

[Matt Erdman]

You're kidding right????

Um... the US is getting buried alive in weightlifting.
It goes like this using 2008 US nationals, the US men would place:
56 kg 13th place....but 22kg below 12th place
62 kg 8th
69 kg 14th
77 kg 11th
85 kg 19th
94 kg 9th
105kg 11th
supers 12th

After just being at the Europeans this was actually on my list of things to do. I knew it was bad...but I never thought it was this bad. The US doesn't even have to go the Europe to get buried...Cuba and more than a few South American countries are kicking their butt.

That is pretty far off.

On a bad showing Vaughn could hit more than 310. He's done 340 which would put him at 5th.

We have three 85 lifters that could place 15th ot better. Farris would be 7th or 8th.

Burgener would place 9th or 10th. But you also have to consider that almost all the top supers were there.

[Jim Hooper]

Rob, firstly, your photography of the sport is absolutely stunning -- big fan here.

To the post:  The point was not "If you compare the top totals from the 2008 US Nationals . . . ."  You're right there:  those totals, by those lifters, that day, would have ranked as you say.

The point was how our best lifters -- many of whom did not compete at that meet -- would have fared in the 08 ECs on their "good days."  The fact is, many of them would have placed somewhere between 5th and 10th in this meet if they put up their best or near their best totals:


77s:  Totals for 10th (Guman) was 322.  Total for 6th (Chrusciewicz) was 333. 

Matt Bruce's average total in majors since 2006 has been 321, and he lifted 327 in the 2007 Nationals.
Chad Vaughn has averaged 326 in majors since 2006 and hit 332 in the 2006 WC.


85s:  Total for 10th (Novikau) was 340.  Total for 7th was 350 (Zairov).  4th, 5th, and 6th were 358, 359, and 360 respectively.

Kendrick Farris's average in majors since 2006 is 348 and he did 355 at 07 Nationals.


94s:  Total for 10th (Mugnier) was 351.  Total for 7th was 362 (Patotski).

Norik Vardanian did 355 two months ago at Nationals.


105s:  Total for 10th (Kokaia) was 345.  Total for 7th (Mazur) was 373.

Donny Shankle's average total in majors since 2006 has been 353 and he hit 360 in 2006 Worlds.
(He repeated the 360 last year at a local meet at the OTC.)

James Moser did 345 two months ago at Nationals.


Supers:  Total for 10th (Nagy) was 380.  Total for 8th was 402 (Velagic).

Casey has totaled in the same range multiple times in the past 24 months.


And I should have not limited it to 77's up.  Our best 62s would have been in the top 10 on their good days as well.

62s:  Total for 10th (Godelli) was 235.  8th and 9th (Rubino and Slaby) were 240 and 244.

Aaron Adams and Derrick Johnson (249 and 255 respectively at 07 Nationals) would crack that top 10 on a 4 or 5 for 6 day.

Of course, you're right that the Greeks, and Iranians, and Turks, and the Bulgarians, and the Chinese, and Cubans, and plenty of others "kick our butts."  One of the imponderable mysteries for the ages.

[Rob Macklem]

Jim,Thankyou for the compliment.

What you've pointed out may be true; however the best in Europe certainly weren't there either in Italy which was very disappointing to me. So this would in fact drive some US ranking down even further. I am not naive however; and I have my suspicions why they didn't show up. Yes, the US is at a LITTLE disadvantage in regards to its honest drug testing. But I don't feel this is a huge factor. Its the often unseen factors; like lifting at a worlds or Europeans and being in the training hall the very next day.

I think it would make a very good essay to write about the everyday  life of a random US lifter and a random Albanian, Moldavian, ect....you don't think they'd be different ? 

I guess I feel a little silly pointing out the obvious. Kinda like mentioning a football team thats best season in 5 years is 1 in 16.
 
The IWF magazine has just published the top 20 ranking in each wt class; the US placed 1 lifter in the 160 placings.
I think it would take some fantastic "spin doctor" to say the US is doing well.

I was hesitant to even post in regards to this topic, but couldn't resist being an arm chair quarterback....Why they kick our butt shouldn't be a mystery, ask Jim Moser Sr he seems to understand the process needed to impact change. Weightlifting is a professional sport in Europe..thats their employment.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Sometimes I feel like I should take the drugs, document the entire process, beat the test for a big total, and then release all the evidence of the drug use to demonstrate what is possible with the drugs. Sure, I know people will say I am just arrogant and the drugs won't make me competitive or even that I am too old to matter, or who knows what else. But, I have trained with many people who used them and I know how they work. They make an absolutely huge difference, night and day.

Still, I will never do it.

[Andy Dick]

I think you brought out a huge crux of the issue in what you said Rob.  I think we are all aware of the poor state of the sport in the US.  A large part due to its lack of popularity, or even having to compete with powerlifting (cause everybody just loves to bench).  The problem is if we cannot get kids interested we cannot train people to excel in the sport or find those who are naturally gifted to compete.  It wasn't till I was in college that I even know the sport of olympic weightlifting existed or I would have gotten into it much sooner (even the high school I coach at, the kids didn't know olympic weightlifting even existed until I got there).  Drug use isn't helping either because those who are using are obviously excelling in other countries.  But we can only do so much about it until someone steps in with much tougher sanctions or a way to test more lifters.  But we are atleast able to say at the end of the day we didn't cheat.

Not to attack you in anyway.  But what I think we need to do as country is stop so much worrying and complaining about other countries that are doping but to shift our primary focus to getting more involvement, promotion, and more recognition of the sport here in the US.  We can still keep up our stance against drug use but lets take more of our focus to getting it going here.  That is just my 2 cents though.