Topic: Overhead Squat to Snatch Ratio

[Paul LaDuke]

I was overhead squating 2 days ago and went as heavy as I could, trying to hit the absolute bottom position, maintain it for about 1-2 seconds and return back to the top.  My max was about 98kg.  I may have been able to do 100kg but I decided to do 102kg.  I failed 2x.  The interesting this is my max snatch is around 98kgs.  Now I know I am in a bit of deconditioned state right now due to a recent and ongoing move into a new home and the holiday schedule.  But this is the most I have ever attempted.  It got me to thinking of what your OHS max should be in relationship to your snatch.  Or do most good coaches even worry about that.  I know that Coach Burgener recommends that one should be able to drop snatch 10kgs more than they snatch.  What do you all think?

[Stephen Georgiou]

My interpretation of Coach Burgener's 10% comments are that the higher drop snatch leads to increased confidence. ie if you are accustomed to making it under something 10% heavier (as in the drop snatch), then when you are pushing your snatch PR, you have that extra level of confidence. I dont think his comments were ever intended as a  guide for appropriate snatch vs drop snatch ratios. That was my interpretation anyway...

In terms of overhead squats vs snatch, is that not similar to a comparison between front squat vs clean, or shoulder press vs jerk? ie one involves definate eccentric and concentric loading with time under tension etc while the other involves more explosion and getting under.

I suspect that OHS vs snatch will be as related as front squat vs clean are???

[Patrick Bateman]

well mark rippetoe says olympic athletes can often front squat 25% more then they can clean. Looking at some of the top guys FS this seems to be roughly true.

To overhead squat 25% more then that you can snatch seems a bit too much.

Dan john said that he could ONLY JUST overhead squat more then his max snatch.

So judging from dan john and your experaince, it appears that you should only mildly be able to overhead squat more.

[Jamie Carruthers]

My interpretation of Coach Burgener's 10% comments are that the higher drop snatch leads to increased confidence. ie if you are accustomed to making it under something 10% heavier (as in the drop snatch), then when you are pushing your snatch PR, you have that extra level of confidence. I dont think his comments were ever intended as a  guide for appropriate snatch vs drop snatch ratios. That was my interpretation anyway...

In terms of overhead squats vs snatch, is that not similar to a comparison between front squat vs clean, or shoulder press vs jerk? ie one involves definate eccentric and concentric loading with time under tension etc while the other involves more explosion and getting under.

I suspect that OHS vs snatch will be as related as front squat vs clean are???

Hi Stephen - hope you are well.  Some years ago Blagoi Blagoev noted:

Take it from me. A 195.5 snatch in the 90 kg class in 1983 is my experience
and believe me I have done a bit more in training. The OHS is the greatest
exercise for
the snatch. That will give you the confidence to get under the bar. That
will give you stability in the squat position and ability to control the bar
at any time you are under it. It is so effective, in the end you will feel
like you have nothing to do but to pull the bar and it is all done. But, of
course there is a "but", you have to be under constant supervision; the coach
have to be honest to know what he/she is doing and do not try to finish it
at once.

Carefully and slowly use progressively increasing weights and you will come to a
point when you OHS more than your actual snatch results. And that's the point.
And once again -- KISS!

[Dave Chiu]

I had the honor of surpassing some of Dan John's records last wknd, and can OHS more than SN.

I almost always do them alternating w/ what I call Squat Jerks, and others call Jump Squats (both of which are already claimed for other exercises) -- basically a Thruster from behind the neck w/ SN width grip. 

The SNgrBKThruster is really great as a way to get the same amplitude of dynamic movement as a Pwr CL, but less complicated to do well, and can be done w/ even CJ weights (but I don't go much more than I can also OHS).

Comparing weights of what guys who train full time can do w/ their competition bests is misleading for most, because of the probable "diminishing returns" level they have gotten to. 

If you are willing to substantially risk injury, be sore all the time, artificially enhance, etc. then the ratios can be very different than if you have a different definition of optimal.

I like to be able to FS my projected CJ 5x (altho I only ever try for that about 7-10 days before a meet), but I no longer really push above projected 90% w/ Squats.

What is possible can be very different from what is necessary and sufficient -- optimal is not an easy thing to define, but I think taking a "what is enough" attitude really helps.

[kirksman teo]

I don't see why there should be a set percentage between the overhead squat to snatch ratio honestly. It's a skill like any other, and thus if you work at the overhead squat more, clearly the percentage of difference between the snatch and overhead squat will be much larger. The overhead squat, does however, help me feel so much more confident in catching the bar after a quick pull.

Zhang Guozheng of China does a clean grip overhead squat of 210KG. His snatch is 160KG. Certain things can be estimated. Certain things, cannot.

[Espi]

  for the thread = answering what I also didn't know. Was searching for something else = what purpose jump squats have (your jump squats here aren't what I call them = back squats with a jump)

[Mike Cook]

I agree that the snatch to OHS ratio has more to do with skill than strength.

I'm 65kgs and my PR in snatch is 81kg.  I can drop snatch 85kg easy.  To me, controlling the drop snatch is not too hard of a skill - if you just go straight down, you can keep your vertical alignment.  Doing the snatch right:  locked back, extend all the way, shrug the shoulders at the top, get under quick, etc - that is quite a bit more complicated skill.