Topic: weight class, joint pain, and older lifters

[Shaun Le Conte]

I am looking to create another topic for discussion and this time it's regarding age, weight and joint health. This topic is probably best suited for masters lifters or those interested in lifting well into their adult years.

Obviously we can lift more when we are heavier, assuming that with the weight came additional muscle mass (more than enough to compensate for having to lift the extra bodyweight). Now suppose for example a lifter is 5'8", 35 years old, and is able to total 250 in the 85 kg class @15% bodyfat, and assume that the same lifter can also total 235@77 with 10% bodyfat. Using the Sinclair formula, the performances are approximately equal.

Since managing joint pain is a large factor in being able to continue to train and enjoy the sport, is it a good idea from a joint health perspective to try and stay as lean as possible in a lighter weight class, within reason? It's less stress on the knees, both from reduced bodyweight and also from a slight reduction in total weight lifted.

[Paul LaDuke]

My experience tells me that each situation is very different.  I have a significant orthopedic history.  I had an ACL and MCL reconstruction in 1987 and I have had 3 ankle surgerys.  I have 2 screws in my right ankle and 2 in my left knee.  I am currently 40 years old, 5'9" tall and weigh about 197. (89-90kgs on average).

I attempted to lose 20# last year in 2006 (and did it) so I could compete in the 85kg class (which I never did).  I felt very thin and weak especially in the shoulders when I weighed 85kg to 86kg.  I now weight in at 89kg and feel much better and stronger.  I feel stronger especially in the upper body with a rare shoulder pain.  Over the past 5-10 years my knees only seem to "act up" on me when I do not squat regularly and get out of shape.  Performing the olympic squat may be one of the best exercises a human can do for long term health.   Regular training in the olympic lifts is the best exercise choice for long term health in my mind as long as you train smart by working around injuries and pain not through them.

Here are some benefits of long term training: total body flexibility, balanced strength throughout the body, increased bone density, increased muscle mass, lower cholesterol, lower blood pressure, reduced body fat, increased lactic acid buffering, increased power production, increased strength, etc.  The short term risks are muscle pulls, joint dislocations and bone fracture.  Dislocations and fractures are extremely rare.  It would be more dangerous to drive to your training session than participate in the session. 

Long term risks would be joint and vertebral disc degeneration which occurs whether you participate in weight lifting or not.  The way to reduce joint degeneration is by keeping the muscles surrounding the joints strong and flexible to reduce stress on the joint - in other words weightlifting!  Team sports increase the risk of short term injury serveral times over weightlifting.  And most other individual sports place more stress on the joints than weightlifting.  Running produces more stress on the joints without strengthening the surrounding muscles.  Bicycling reduces the joint stress but does nothing for the upper body.  Most joint degeneration occurs in the spine and shoulders (osteoporosis resulting in that big hump in the middle of the back). 

So weightlifting may be the best mode of training when compared to all other modes of training or choosing to be sedentary IMHO.

[Tom Banister]

This topic is near and dear to me. I'm a month away from turning 50, and I've realized that at this age, adding significant muscle mass and strength is very difficult. I don't have enough mass, strength and whatever else to be competitive in the 105kg weight class. But, it's kind of "hard" work to get down to 94kg. I've chosen to be a 94kg lifter. As you said Shaun, there are a lot of health benefits to getting rid of fat. Keeping it off is a little challenging when you enjoy cooking and eating, and when you are a skilled beer brewer! :grin:  I have an idea what I would have to do to add the muscle/strength to lift as a 105, and I ache just thinking about it.  So in summary; in my opinion, if you're a "master" lifter, go for the lighter weight class unless it takes too much out of you to get there.

[Tom Weary]

Regarding weight class, I think you should lift where you "feel" strongest.  I have been lifting as a M45 77kg class for the past couple of years.  At the PanAm Masters in July I weighed in at 75.50, but at 5'9" I think I was the tallest in my class.  I only made 3 for 6 and definitely did not feel as strong as in training, where I had been trying to keep my weight around 77 kg, without too much trouble.  A week later I had a dunk test for my 47th birthday, and came in at 7.7% bodyfat at 170 pounds, so I must have been down around 6% at the meet the week before.  A few years ago, my coach called me "obese" at 14.6% bodyfat, but frankly I think it is too hard for an old fart with 5 kids and a real job to maintain optimum strength at 6-7% bodyfat.  Plus I have been gaining 4-5 pounds of lean muscles mass per year for the last three years training under my coach, and I focus more on muscle gained than bodyfat.  I am now moving up to 85 kg, so we'll see if I successfully grow into the class.  Again, I think you should listen to your body and lift where you are most comfortable and strongest.

As for injuries, you are bound to have injuries when you push yourself to compete at an elite level.  I think the trick is to manage around the inevitable series of small injuries and do all you can to avoid the major injuries, because at our age it just takes too long to recover.

[Shawn Thomas]

 Great topic! I am nearing 35 y.o. & have definitely felt the physiological changes in my body. I started competing last January at a meet where I weighted in at 96 kg. I did not bother dropping to the 94's as I wasn't concerned about winning,just going 6 for 6. I ended up in 2nd place, not too bad. Since then I have been training like a madman & like what usually happens when i push/pull & squat w/ barbells my BW shoots up. I am now sitting between 103-105kg. My lift totals have also gone up as a result, as well as my overall maximal strength.
 First, I am concerned about dropping weight because I am at my strongest & rely heavily on maximal strength to get my lifts up. I see progress & don't want to screw w/ it. Plus the ol' BB/PLer mindset sets in & the decrease in strength just drives me mental, plus I kinda like being bigger..lol!! Then there is that speed-strength thing which has hindered me to no end, I have tried everything to improve my lifting speed i.e power/hang/plyo's etc. to no avail. I came to a realization that because of my increasing age, this area is not going to improve. Unless of course I lose weight, but w/ the loss of weight comes a decrease in maximal strength. So I am sticking w/ the heavyweights & might even find myself in the 105+ someday, as long as my lifts go up, I dont' care if I can't fit  into a 34 jean...lol!!
 Aches & pains come and go, I have a history of low back injuries & pain. 13 yrs. of Rugby will do it. It was weightlifting that helped, the high volume of posterior chain work strengthened all those once weak muscles & I no longer have debilitating pain, no more weekly chiro treatments/pain killers & hours of ice time.
 The only thing I watch are the knees & so last spring I purchased rehband knee sleeves, which helped tremendously.
So far this year I have competed in 3 meets & qualified for the BC's which is in 4 weeks, I love this sport & will keep going until it breaks me!! I apologize for my long windenest, I'm  sorta one of those descriptive types who is very wordy..lol

[Shaun Le Conte]

A question for the two guys above - are you both doing full squat snatches and cleans? I think if a person does high power snatches and cleans for their competition lifts, like the majority of master lifters I see, then knee pain isn't really an issue any more (I was thinking about knees at the time I wrote).

[Paul LaDuke]

A question for the two guys above - are you both doing full squat snatches and cleans? I think if a person does high power snatches and cleans for their competition lifts, like the majority of master lifters I see, then knee pain isn't really an issue any more (I was thinking about knees at the time I wrote).

Shaun, 

I think a lot of people make that assumption about depth of squat and knee pain, but I think the opposite is actually true.  I think performing the full version of squats, cleans and snatches in more beneficial to the knees than power versions or half squats.  There is some evidence that having to stop the knee joint during the descent causes more damage to the knee than performing full versions.  I see it as an extension of the SAID principle (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands).  If you strengthen the knees throughout the range of motion, they will feel good throughout the range of motion.

[Shawn Thomas]

 I find power versions harder on me because of my lack of shoulder & wrist flexiblity & because I am slow when getting under the bar in the rack position. TOO MUCH arm/back/chest work from ol days of BB/PLing. But a very good point Shaun. I like performing the classical versions, I believe it transfers better to competion. On the flip side, I know when I am doing too much "deep knee bending", that the knees get achey. Just depends. Before I got the knee sleeves, I went through a bout of sharp lateral pain, freaked me out. That's when I got the sleeves & the pain eventually went away. I also just got over patellar tendonitis in my L.knee (old rugby injury) it just creaped up on me, stopped squatting for a week, iced repeatedly, & just went away. I am also taking a deeper look into programming. As a coach as well as a competitor, I am really understanding why each training program must be tailored to the individuals needs. It is too easy just to download a training program & go for it. I also submitted myself to 3x per week program, I find recovery "key " for me.