Topic: Bulgarian Style Training

[Steve Gough]

Glenn,

Sounds damn good to me. Sounds like what we've been preaching about.
Good show... keep it going.

Steve

[glennpendlay]

mike, the 160 isnt a PR.  but it is about the heaviest weight he can succeed with on a regular bais right now.  

john, i dont know about my ability to do it, but i do think that what you do day to day when you adjust things is more important than whatever workout you are using to start with.

thats probably why i "failed" so spectacularly to do well when you sent me your program, what was it like 5-6 years ago?  it was there on paper and i was damn determined to do it exactly and each day went from bad to worse, simply becasue i just couldnt quite do it, and as the days wore on and i got more tired, the difference between the workout and my ability got greater and greater.

ive often thought that i would like to see on one of your programs, not what was planned, but an after the fact record of what actually happened for a 3-4 week period.  i could probably learn something from that.

anyway, i hate trying to explain how we train in an abstract way, becasue i can talk about it 3 times, and each time it can sound completely different.  id rather really just show what actually got done than what was supposed to get done, or what the theoretical basis is.  

the only thing that remains the same day after day and for all the lifters i guess is that we lift heavy weights and try to work hard and improve, and in every workout your trying to figure out how to lift the heaviest possible and do the best job of getting further toward the ultimate goal.

and one other thing john, darn i probably shouldnt say this, but i think you ought to push those guys of your to 2 workouts a day with more force!!  it can be done, ive got some guys who are in high school, some in hgh school AND doing swimming or some other sport, and they train twice, even if it means a 6am workout...  ive got college guys who work 30-40 hours a week, carry a full load of classes, get good grades and still manage 2 workouts a day.  before collegiates a bunch of my guys decided to push the issue, and go to 3 workouts a day, they did, they kept it up for around 6 weeks, all of them made personal records at collegiates also.

anyway, for what its worth, it really, really does seem to help, and most people can do it if they want to bad enough.

otherwise take care, good luck getting ready for nationals.  we only have 8 going this year which is a little disapointing, but we will have fun and hopefully have a person or two lift good.  hope you have the same...

[glennpendlay]

john, our workouts are long and leisurely.  there is no research, ever i don't think, that shows blood test drops like Spassov describes, at least not research that rules out plasma volume changes.  and even if there was a drop, so what?  has ANYONE ever proposed any possible mechanism whereby short term test fluctuations could effect training or recovery?  i don't think so.  has anyone ever demonstrated ANY negative effect from a short-term test fluctuation?  no, they haven't.

anyway, i don't buy into the whole work out for 45 minutes only because your test levels drop thing at all.

so hell our guys may be in the gym from 1:30 to 4:30 sometimes for afternoon workout.  or they may hurry and get it done by 3:00. typically if one person is going big, other activity stops, that takes time, Donny might bow out for a while to let Brimhall snatch without interruption or distraction, then Brimhall sets back, maybe loads plates or whatever, while Donny snatches, then back the other way.  or ashley might sit back for an hour coaching a younger girl in between her snatch/clean workout and her squats, or something like that.  our workouts are long affairs, where we help each other, stop and start training as needed, maybe even get a light massage and rest, then start training again, maybe eat an orange or two and have a sit down then start training again.

most of our guys would live at the gym if they could.  just train, massage and eat and watch the videos a little then train again, and on and on.

[John Thrush]

Glenn,

I think just about everything you said was right on the money.  I always hesitate to send programs to people because of just what you said - the moderating element of the coach.  But sometimes something is better than nothing.  But the the truth of the matter is that I would bet money that virtually every workout done is somewhat different (if not substantially different) than the program workout.  The structure is there but the substance is much different both positive and negative.  I would have loved to have had you as an athlete when you were young and had the chance to see what you might really have done in the sport.

As far as multiple daily training sessions, I have been sadly ineffectual in getting this done.  I just can't get kids to do it for whatever reason.  Many of my older lifters would do it but for distance from the gym.  It's something I continue to talk about when I feel there is a possiblity and someday someone is going to do it and they are going to be the example that inspires the rest, at least I hope so.  There is no question in my mind that that is the next step, though.

Good luck at Nationals.

[glennpendlay]

john, it depends on the day.  often they snatch, then sit back and load plates for someone else or help coach someone else or get the legs rubbed down or eat a snack, then go  back to training, and so on, for quite a period of time.  so sometimes it is like 30 minutes on, 30 minutes off all afternoon.  its not planned that way for any particular reason, but just what a person will do so that he can lift his best weights and help his teammates lift their best weights.

other times, i have seen a guy like brimhall train continuously for 3-4 hours doing an absolutely incredible volume of work.  he did it becasue on that day, he could!!!!  you wouldnt belive what that paricular kid can do in the gym.  i havnt figured out yet why he cant do it in competition, but someday we will figure it out and then, the world better watch out.

our guys are like a family, and they want to stay in the gym and help each other, and will come to the gym even if they are sick or havnt slept just to be around the other kids and to help.  weightlifting is a religion here.  wichita falls is like valhalla for weightlifters.

[glennpendlay]

john thrush,

I'm glad you sent me the program, it helped me even though i was not successful on it, both as a lifter and as a coach.  i I've said many places that you were a big influence on me as a coach, and its true.

i wish that i had had a coach like you when i started.  but in a way it worked out well, because my failure as an athlete has pushed me hard to not let my athletes fail, at least not for the same reasons that i did.

[Steve Gough]

Glenn,

Nice post! Expressing the real desires of us all. I would wish that we would all say the same thing and then get after it with the spirit of '76.

John,

The morning thing... no one can dictate others' situations. For the guys I am working with, they have to travel approx 55 miles to train to with me, 1/2 year in rocky mountain winter conditions. AM training is done at another location (MSU).... usually without much direct input from me. Creating the perfect situation seems to be at the moment beyond my grasp. Glenn's situation/environment is far more conducive to what we would all like to have. He is to be commended. When I talk to Mike Burgener inre this situation and the discussion towards athletes making sacrifices, he always brings up Tommy taking a two hour bus ride from Camp Pendleton to train with him daily ...and/or hitchhiking on weekends from 29 Palms to train before being transferred closer to Mikes. Like I said before, where there is a will there is a way. If a.m. training is part of the total package then somehow make it a reality at Calpians, USA.

Inre Glenn's situation and others like his... it begs me to ask the question "are we getting the "bang for our buck" from USAWeightlifting? Yeah, I know... don't ask that. Hide your head in the sand. Personally, I would like to see a half dozen, a dozen or whatever funded (or at least partially funded) Glenn type situations around the country on a war-footing. Imagine those 4 junior top place 85kg finishers training side by side. Hell, I say this and "damn the torpedoes". How about Casey Burgener training side by side with Donny Shankle. Sparks would fly, totals would escalate like lava spewing  from a red hot Mt. St. Helens.

Steve

[John Thrush]

I agree, Steve, but you wrote down the key word - WILL!  I have it but apparently, the athletes I have don't quite have it.  I'll  find one sometime, though.  Bet on it.  Melanie Kosoff is starting to train again and it may be her.  Maybe she'll set the tone and the standard for others to follow.  We'll see.

As far as multiple sites around the country where intense activity with quality lifters can be going on, I have always been in favor of us doing that.  We need at least ten of them regionally dispersed, with competent coaching (now isn't that a separate can of worms) and start to do exactly what you're saying.  But once again, we come up against that all important word - WILL!  Do they have it and will they act on it.  I didn't see it when I was on the Board.

But everyhting starts with the vision and the aspiration to be better, and with the belief that there are enough of us that feel that way that we will eventually prevail in this.  Otherwise, we may as well just decide to be recreational athletes.  And I, for one, am NOT up for that.  I would feel demeaned by that and it would make everything I've tried to do in the sport for all these years meaningless.  I won't accept that. now or ever.  I love this sport and it's not meaningless to me.

John