Topic: Bulgarian Style Training

[Matt Foreman]

"I believe the Bulgarian approach can work for some lifters, but I can't accept the absence of back squats and have trouble accepting the absence of pulls. I think that is a gigantic mistake, especially while trying to go so heavy in the lifts so often. I think it takes a certain amount of conditioning to be able to handle a lot of heavy attempts, and I think back squat and pulls are the most effective method of achieving that conditioning. Without that conditioning, I think a program of going heavy all the time will eventually fail because the volume will not be high enough to keep the lifter in shape. But, if one looks at the Bulgarian approach as primarily being about the low volume and high percentages in the lifts, I believe it will work for some people."

I agree with this.  Every time I've taken pulls out of the program, either my own or the guys I was training, the consequences have been negative.  And avoiding heavy squats doesn't seem to work very well either.  Just my two cents.

[Andy Dick]

I was just reading this post and was wondering what do you all think about what was talked about as far as training now that it is almost a year since the last post?

[Paul LaDuke]

Andy,

I think in order to effect change on a human body over a period of years variety must be employed.  If training variety is not used then the body will stagnate or become injured.  Training variety can come in manipulation of intensity, density, volume, frequency or it can also come in changing exercises frequently.  I find in my own training that if I don't change things up every few weeks or even less, I won't get stronger; I am not effecting change in my body.  To me the philosophy I just wrote fits into the Russian system of training more than the Bulgarian system with my limited understanding of both philosophies.  The Russian style seems to employ a bunch of different lifts (pulls from different heights, BS, FS, power versions, etc) to strengthen different parts of the classical lifts at various phases of training and then bring them all together to peak at a specific time (i.e. world championships).  This type of training may be better suited for longevity and drug free training.  As the body adapts to the stress to it and is effectively changed for the positive, the coach changes the stress pattern and the body then must adapt to another stress.  This makes more sense to me, but I admit I am not nearly experience nor intelligent as Roman, Abijev, etc.

While it is true that training the back squat, front squat, snatch and clean and jerk are really the only necessary lifts to train, I have to think that planning to use a lot of other lifts (OHS, drop snatch, various pulls, power versions, etc.) in an orderly and purposefully manner will effect positive change on the athlete better than just performing the classic lifts day after day, month after month, year after year. 

Just my thoughts at this time, I hope other, more experienced coaches out there will put in there $.02 so I can learn some more ideas, etc.  I would like to here more about the Chinese and Iranian training methods (especially if they are not doping).

[Shaun Le Conte]

I wasn't a part of the thread from a year ago but I stand by some of what was written. As I have been taught by my mentors in weightlifting, if you only work out 3x a week then all you have time for is snatch, clean & jerk and squat. Need more variety? Try some light lunges or stepups and stiff-legged deadlifts

[Andy Dick]

One thing I was wondering about it is I always viewed the bulgarian training (I am no expert) as close to what Josh Thrush posted for Reply #15 on: April 21, 2005, 02:32:48 AM.  I am interested to know how this program treated lifters and the success the may or may not have had.  I know Karoliina tried the bulgarian approach and found it was detrimental to thier lifting.  But was that the same as what John did?  Because to me the bulgarian approach more mimiced reaching the max for the day and then adjusting from there.  So a day you are dead you only hit a weight that is equivalent to 90% of your max you are not hitting 100%.  Then the expertise of the coach comes in to say ok stop that is good for the day or lets drop it 2.5-7 kilos (or whatever) and lift at that intensity, or if you hit 100% easily lets try to hit 2.5+ kilos.  So in theory there will be days where the athlete is fatigued from a pervious hard workout but they lift less accordingly but the days they are killing thier weights they have the freedom to reach for the sky.  To me it seemed more like Karoliina tried to hit 100% of thier max each day which would I think would wear out an athlete, as opposed to a relative max for the day.

[Matt Erdman]

One thing that I have not seen discussed well is the management of fatigue. Usually the opnly mention is that if a lifter isn't doing well on a particular day, then they will stop early. I think this is what leads to stagnation. If you always try to stay fresh and lift at your maximum weights (as determined by your previous best lifts), then you will lift those weights, but there will be little to adapt to. Glenn said there is a problem with overload when using the Bulgarian system, that exercise variety is required to achieve overload. I don't agree with that. I think there needs to be a medium between the style advocated by Gough and the experience of Karolina. I think a lifter must be pushed into a state where performance decreases and the joints are sore, which are signs of overload. After that a lifter can backoff and let supercompensation take place. I don't have a good reference, but I think typically, the Bulgarians will do 3 weeks heavy and 1 week recovery. Restoratives of different varieties will make a big difference. Maybe 2 heavy 1 light, or 2 heavy 2 light would be more appropriate in the US.

I disagree with Gough in his thinking that this type of training can be used for any lifter. It's a mistake to used daily and multi-daily training with high school students who don't know how to sleep or eat properly, and espescially athletes that compete in different sports. There is a difference between being able to handle the training and making optimal progress on it.

[Dave Almeida]

I'm glad this thread has been dug up. My friend and I have been looking at the philosophies behind Abadjiev's training system and starting to apply them in our own way to our workouts. We do still backsquat, and very very rarely on a light day where we are beat up we might do some pulls just to do something. However, we have been seeing very good results very quickly through his philosophies of the organism adapting to higher percentages and a "trained state". It is important to keep in mind that we are conditioned to take max attempts as even though we are fairly new to the sport. We would take max attempts in the powerlifts twice a week before we moved on to weightlifting. Last spring I would do a 5x5 squat program in the morning or early afternoon then have a 3 hour baseball practice every day and sometimes still train again after that. At this point in time my later training sessions were very light because I was still technically learning the lifts.

 Right now we both take 2 heavy training sessions a week. We go into these training sessions with the mindset that PR's must be set. However, PR's arn't always set and if we dont have it that day then we accept it and lift with whatever we can manage with good form. However, you will be surprised how often you don't feel like you "have it" but you can still lift heavy weights. Such is training.

 On my heavy days I will front squat heavy. One day I will push the absolute maximum, another I will maybe hit a very close to maximum heavy double or triple (I know singles is the basis of the advanced bulgarian system but I think this is best as we still need some variation because we are young in our 'training life' so to speak). The other training days are focus around lighter %'s and two of the days will be the power variations of the lifts. I read up above how Chris likes pulls. I feel the power variations are there to help your pull. I believe that was the Greek's team reasoning for doing power variations. We will still back squat twice a week, once to a moderate heavy single and once to a lower % but again maybe for a triple. We train 6 days a week. We would like to train more than once a day and maybe only 4-5 days a week but it is simply not possible at this point in time as we have limited access to platforms and bumpers. I believe that training multiples times a day and training less times a week would be better than 6 days a week of one session if you could choose. You want to stimulate the organism in a way to force it into a 'trained state' and my understanding is that this state is only achievable at the higher level through multiple training sessions a day.

  This summer I only trained once a day for 3-4 days a week and also saw some positive results. However, the results achieved recently through this system are on a much more rapid scale. I don't think you can train 3-4 days  a week and do much more than simply qualify for nationals at best after a few years of training.

 I am not going to say you don't get beat up and feel tired from this type of training. You do get beat up and feel tired. You have to stretch, massage, foam roll, and eat well just  to prevent your body from feeling terrible. The results are there though, and I will be tapering soon for a meet and hopefully I will feel great there with some adrenaline flowing. In December and part of January I will be able to train twice a day and then compete in another meet. I'm hopeful the results will be positive as I will have two heavy days instead of two heavy sessions a week. This training right now will hopefully serve as a good primer for the twice a day training in december and part of january until I need to return to college.

[Andy Dick]

However, you will be surprised how often you don't feel like you "have it" but you can still lift heavy weights. Such is training.

Ha, thats funny you say that...that happens to me a lot.  Where I feel like crap and have some of the best lifts of my life or set a PR.  I always just thought it was cause I got pissed cause I felt like crap and it gave me a little edge.  Its good to know that happens to others as well.