Topic: Bulgarian Style Training

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Coach Lundahl,

Thank you for sharing this very valuable information. I will reinforce something you said, from a slightly different perspective.

I believe that a person's capability to handle max lifts is personal. Also note that a max lift for a female lifter is harder than for a male athlete because of the mental energy they tap into: females tend to be able to hit higher percentages in am training than men. This means it also wears down on them more than on men and recovery is longer.

I agree it is personal. I tend to think that men's higher testosterone levels is one factor that could facilitate more frequent maximal attempts. I also think age is a factor. I believe that work capacity must be systematically built up over time while the athlete is young in order to adapt to very high volume-loads.  If this is not done, I believe it will be rare and very difficult that an athlete will be able to fully adapt to more than 5-6 sessions a week with limited 90-100% efforts. I also think bodyweight is a key factor with lighter lifters having an easier time adapting to "super-high" workloads.

To me, the style of training is not the determining factor here. Youth, desire, bodyweight, gender, and genetics are the important factors from my perspective. When I was in the best shape, I am confident I could have handled whatever program thrown at me up to my then current work capacity (500-917 reps a week at 80% or above). What I don't know is whether or not that style would have produced superior results to the more volume oriented approach we undertook then. Unfortunately, in my case, I do not believe we could have even fairly tested such a thing as it would not have mattered. I ran into a wall because of poor overhead stability caused by poor jerking technique/excessive back arching. If only someone had taught me to jerk properly from the beginning....

Again Coach Lundahl, thank you very much for sharing your program and experience.

[Karoliina Lundahl]

Chris,

I have a comment about 'high-volume loads'. In my understanding this is where traditional strength training differs from the Bulgarian single regimen.

You mentioned that you were able to lift 500-917 lifts over 80% during your career. Those numbers - especially at the high end - are huge! From my training discussions with Coach Cioroslan at OTC my understanding was that the next goal would be to keep the volume the same but raise the percentage of which the lifts would be counted from: 500 lifts at 85% is a heavier load than 500 @ 80%.

And that's where the traditional strength training goes: one attempts to increase the repetition work load to get tougher training (a week of 500 @80% is lighter than a week of 600 @80%, etc.). Thus I'll call 'repetition work load' the biggest variable in traditional strength training.

However the Bulgarian single regimen does not worry about repetition work load. Week in, week out it is the same: about 100-135, maybe even up to 150 reps if one trains 10-12 times per week. The biggest variation in their system is the content of those 100+ lifts. There is never a question whether I can get through the week and get my reps in, it's a question of HOW HARD CAN I TRAIN THESE 100+ REPS I'M DOING THIS WEEK.

The psychology of these two training regimens are from two different worlds. It's easier to hang on to the concrete goal (I did 500 reps this week, next week I'll go heavier at 600) than to push the tired body into repeating the same heavy weights or lifting even more. This is when everything that Steve G. always talks about steps in: how to overcome the pain and tiredness to push more quality into the small amount of lifts one does. Thus the biggest variable in Bulgarian single regimen is the ability to hit heavy lifts as many times as possible and feel confident that you can continue training like that.

'High-volume training' - in my understanding - does not apply here. Are we even talking about the same training regimens? Bulgarian Style Training vs. Bulgarian single regimen training?

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

You mentioned that you were able to lift 500-917 lifts over 80% during your career. Those numbers - especially at the high end - are huge! From my training discussions with Coach Cioroslan at OTC my understanding was that the next goal would be to keep the volume the same but raise the percentage of which the lifts would be counted from: 500 lifts at 85% is a heavier load than 500 @ 80%.

Yes, the 917 repetition week was an extreme case. Most of my weeks were between five and seven hundred reps. But, I did have the capacity to do lots of 90-100%+ lifts in addition to the volume, and I saw my fellow residents do some of the same. In fact, the week that I did 917, I had PR singles in the power snatch, power clean and jerk, and back squat. Now, it is true that I did a lot of volume and not even close to the number of heavy singles that the Bulgarian style would employ, but as you said, what we were doing was a lot of work.

I wasn't saying the two systems were the same, only that they both employ a lot of hard training compared to more traditional models. I do not know for sure that I could have handled the Bulgarian system or if I would have prospered under it, and I have never done it. But, I think I could have done it. Thats all I was saying. I may well be mistaken, but given the right combination of personal factors, as you said above, I can see the system working well for some people, maybe even better than any other system for certain people.

[Scott Safe]

Awesome posts, Chris and Karolina.  Now, we have heard some pretty in depth training info from two top lifters, who else can specifically join in?  Pete Kelly?  Wes Barnett?  Either one of those would be awesome....Anybody know how to contact them and get them involved?  Any of Gayle Hatch's top lifters?

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Scott,

I will try and talk Wes in to doing our next interview, after Jim Schmitz (coming soon) and Rich Lansky. Wes is a very busy man, and our interviews are pretty long. But, I will see what I can do....I will also ask Pete, at some point, as well.

Thanks.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

You know I was thinking about this thread and remembered something that may be of interest. In reality, the training program that I did during my senior year in high school was very similar to the Bulgarian approach. John Thrush was writing my workouts and I followed them. But, he lives in Washington state and I live in Florida. So, sometimes I modified the program based on what was happening during the workout. Often, as I was young and enthusiastic, I would go heavier than the program called for, especially in the lifts. My senior year in high school, when I set Jr+Sr American Records in the 52kg class and won my first senior nationals, I had weight training class first period followed by teacher aide for the weight training teacher, which I also used for training time. Then, I would train again after school.

This routine of basically going heavy in the morning and heavy again in the evening worked very well for me. Of course, I had already been training several years at this point and had experienced two junior squad training camps, one of which was the "overtraining camp" where we trained as much as three times a day. So, I had a base. But, the system did work. The only real caveat is that I did back squats and pulls while the Bulgarian approach seems to claim they are not necessary.

I believe the Bulgarian approach can work for some lifters, but I can't accept the absence of back squats and have trouble accepting the absence of pulls. I think that is a gigantic mistake, especially while trying to go so heavy in the lifts so often. I think it takes a certain amount of conditioning to be able to handle a lot of heavy attempts, and I think back squat and pulls are the most effective method of achieving that conditioning. Without that conditioning, I think a program of going heavy all the time will eventually fail because the volume will not be high enough to keep the lifter in shape. But, if one looks at the Bulgarian approach as primarily being about the low volume and high percentages in the lifts, I believe it will work for some people.

Anyone agree, disagree, have a comment?

[GabrielNagy]

Im just a beginner but I agree with Chris...back squats and pulls looks important to me. I heard that especially Chinese do a lot of pulls with success as we can see. But lets hear some more responsible lifters and trainers. :wink:

[patrick ward]

In all honesty, I have never seen any benefit for myself from doing pulls.  I never get anything out of them.  I see better results if I do RDL's for speed and work on just moving the weight.

I agree about the back squating though.  I couldn't see going with out it.