Topic: Bulgarian Style Training

[Steve Gough]

Hi John, ol' buddy,

Your concept of the Bulgarian system is far different than mine. Maybe because our experiences have lead us in slightly different directions and interpretations.

You've seen Mike B and me talk about adopting our own versions. That statement says volumes, that we allow ourselves to be creative while keeping in mind the basics of the system. Forgive me, I wish we could just spend some time together watching each other rather than simply trying to get it all down on a forum such as this. I am a big supporter of "on the job training" and wish that somehow we could put together some type of situation where we can periodically learn from each other actually doing the practice of...

Attacking one's absolute max as mandatory every session will not work in our drug-free environment. Working at that near-level and sometimes that very level or exceeding it when warranted is what you are looking for. A lot of different forces come into play... especially the individual and chemistry between athletes and between athlete and coach. Knowing when to let your lifter "have his nose" so to speak and knowing when to rein him/her in becomes vital. Likewise, pushing one when one needs to be pushed is also part of the menu. You set realistic, timely goals (timely at least in your own mind) and push towards that end. Having that realistic goal can be a giant catalyst... remember Dean Goad going for that American Jr c&J record years ago down at my meet. I imagine he would have walked through brick walls to make that happen. And then again, have you ever asked yourself in retrospect if you could have done something better/different/otherwise? If only you knew then what you know now...

Let us say that our best snatch is 125... that we did it two months ago, but right now we are not quite at that level, but want to reach it and then get after 127.5. Start with where you currently are, knowing all along that lifting memory can bring you back to 125. Work up to what you are capable of... drill it a couple of time, if there... stop, or go down, come back up and do it again. Allow your good senses that have control. Do your C&Js... break... snatch again and try to repeat that successful weight from before... maybe even exceed it. Watch you lifter like a hawk... know his/her limitations , when to let 'em go, when to pull 'em in. Keep the chain going... snatch 'em again tomorrow at a lesser intensity, enough to keep the level satisfied.... come back the following day, see where it will take you.... if it's more of the same, then its more of the same... if it's 2 1/2 kilos more than go for it. If not, use your intuition, what experience tells you and play it from there. Keep that next 2 1/2 kilo improvement out there in everyone's mind to shoot for. Be dogged...
 
I am speaking from a little bit of emotion at the same time from my experiences doing this very same thing. I remember in late '95 when I challenged Jasha, Jeff Michaels and Barney.. that in order to qualify for the trials the projected qualifying total would be X. That the lifts they would probably need to reach would be Y & Z. They each brought something different to the table... especially level of experience. But they were all in real bad shape, with a long way to go in a very short time. Their chemistry, their wills really dominated what would otherwise have been a pretty and near impossible task if judged by normal standards and expectations. And they went about it every other day going after max attempts (what they had in the tank that day), challenging each other, constantly pushing for where they needed to be. Most days were up and down affairs... never was it a straight path.

There, I've talked enough...

Yer ol' pal and traveling mate

[Steve Gough]

John,

OOPS! I just reread your last paragraph.... Wonderful! We are in accord.

Steve

[Scott Safe]

Attacking one's absolute max as mandatory every session will not work in our drug-free environment. Working at that near-level and sometimes that very level or exceeding it when warranted is what you are looking for. A lot of different forces come into play... especially the individual and chemistry between athletes and between athlete and coach. Knowing when to let your lifter "have his nose" so to speak and knowing when to rein him/her in becomes vital. Likewise, pushing one when one needs to be pushed is also part of the menu.

Steve,

THIS IS THE PART I NEEDED!!!  I was always under the impression that each workout went till failure.  We have been doing this part wrong.  So, it is up to the coach how far the athlete goes and may very well not go to a miss.  Correct??  Let me know when you get a chance.

Thanks!!

Scott

[Steve Gough]

Scott,

I suppose in the old days (recent old days) my interpretation might have been cosidered less than stern enough to satisfy strict Bulgarian. But anecdotal evidence has been coming out in the last couple of years. Case in point, what Ari Moillanen is doing with his Finnish athletes after he spent time in Bulgaria. And speaking of Ari, last year he was in a camp in Russia and quoted an elite Russian 85 kg lifter as saying that they were doing the Bulgarian system now... that it was the only way to go (my words). Also I have seen recent variations, I believe translated by Bud Charniga.... who should be invited to join this forum along with Randy Strossen. Of course, everytime you read of these foreign programs you have to take into consideration all the nuances. An example of Suley's best training prior to Atlanta may not look anything like his training six, eight months before. Maybe six months out he was only snatching 120 or 125. Maybe he had been coasting up till then. The format was the same, but the weights certainly weren't. So you start from that standpoint that he had to start from somewhere to shoot for eventully where he ultimately arrived... all the while realizing that by that point in his career he had quite a few years of "lifting memory" (ala muscle memory) behind him. Now, for the rest of us mortals, we've got to get to that point.

Getting back to your question, I will at times really push the issue... when I think the lifter is ready and needs to. This is almost in the form of a "value judgment"... call it "coaching judgment" if you will. But, mostly I want to see successes, especially with pre-chosen weights that should be mastered (and those are more or less high on the food chain, but low enough to insure success) at all times. I especially like to pick weight schemes that mimic attempts in a meet. I may have them performed more than once in a session... and maybe again in a second session. The am workout is much the same but at a lesser intensity. I am not above trying someone else's suggestions and/or methods. Yesterday, I even tried a somewhat modified Joe Mills' approach and found that for yesterday it was right on. If I was to search for a good analogy I probably might look at this training as "building blocks" to be added to a little bit at a time, always keeping in mind the finished edifice you are really shooting for.

I will make a conflicting statement about training in the long term if one really wants to get to any great level... you have to be prepared in this system to endure tedium in your training, all the while making adjustments to avoid just that... tedium. And these adjustments can be so minimal as to be little change at all. It is just an attempt to refresh one's training subtley, without really changing the format, to keep the motivation and the progress coming.

Hope that makes sense...

[John Thrush]

Hey Steve,

I made the old mistake of making an assumption and didn't say what I generally believe we all accept to be the norm in that the coach is always making day-to-day adjustments in the program.  Any program is just a road map of where you want to go - you're always able to take little "side trips".  And what I outlined above is really NOT what I would consider a "program" since all parts of it are open to changes and adjustments at any time.  The real "meat" of it is the symbiosis of the coach and athlete and, as you have often said Steve, to go " up against it", to look into the abyss (to be a bit dramatic about it) and to put it all on the line.

One more thing, I add the pulling day, followed by the day of rest, as a way of "recharging the batteries" for the intensity of the other days.  As the athletes become fitter and their work capacities increase, I think this becomes less and less necessary but it helps in the beginning, I think.

Just anothe way to go about it.

Hope you're doing well, old friend.

John

[Steve Gough]

John,

Got to run.... to the docs for treadmill stress test... you know, the ol' ticker.

I am not above a day off.. somethimes it is just plain called for for many reasons. But all our best results come off of uninterrupted training. Pulls of anykind while doing this system seems to me to affect recovery negatively with no appreciable results. Like I got Dragomir to admit one day.... "just filler." Otherwise, you said a mouthful. That part about the lack of time to affect am training should be discussed... where there is a will there will be a way (found)

Steve

[glennpendlay]

this may or may not be an example of what you would term "bulgarian" training, but it sounds to me about what you guys are advocating.  here is the last 3-4 days of donnys training...  like it sounds for you guys, we start each week with a rough plan, but dont always stick to it.

thursday of last week

snatch singles to 150, looked hard and quit.
clean and jerked singles to 190, looked hard so didnt go higher, went back and did another lift at 180
squatted singles to 240kg

then in evening
snatched singles to 155, again this looked slow and not good form, so went back and did a couple more with 140 and quit.
clean and jerked to 180, this was hard so we just quit there

light back massage and go home

friday

only one workout, did some light snatches with 120 working on technique problems from day before, then clean and jerked to 150, worked on a jerk problem with some light weights.

then back massage and leg massage and go home.

saturday

snatched all the way to 160 witout miss, it was good so quit there after that great lift.
clean and jerked to 190, then did a couple of singles with 180
back squatted to 240 for a single

then that night, snatched to 155, then just quit right there, he was tired and for m wasnt all that great.
clean and jerk stopped at 180 i think, he was tired and just didnt have it.
front squatted to 210 for a single.

sunday, no training

monday

snatch to 160, then a couple of singles at 140 and 150
clean and jerk to 185, then just stopped
back squatted to 255k, which surprisingly enough was really easy

then monday night
snatched to 155, then just stopped
clean and jerked 190, then 195, it was really easy so went to 200, good clean but stupid mistake on jerk and a miss.
tried to front ssquat but it wasnt happening so said go home...

did light massage on back and legs and drove home.

tuesday
snatch light several singles with 120 and 130 and worked on moving the feet better and quicker under the bar.
clean and jerked 150 a couple of times, still working on getting the jerk behind the head

wednesday

snatched to 160 very easy. quit while we were ahead.
clean and jerked to 190, which was hard, so went and did some lighter work for a while.
front squatted 202.5 for a double.

then wednesday night
snatched 150 for a double.  then did very, very easy and fast 160, then tried 165 3 times and just coulcnt quite get it locked each time.

jerked from rack 5 singles with 170, working on form, then jerked 180 and 190 for singles.

did some light cleans with 150-160.

good long massage and go home.

thursday, just did 130 single in snatch, 160 single on clean and jerk, light back massage and then go home.

plan for tomorrow is in afternoon clean and jerk first, hardly ever do that, and go after 195-200 again, then snatch light and try to get a big front squat, then in evening snatch 160 and clean and jerk 180 or so and back squat 240 or so.  who knows if that is how it will turn out.

[John Thrush]

Glenn,

Like all good coaches, of which I count you one, you have a highly developed intuitive sense of what to do with your athlete - a sort of ability to "read" the athlete through body language, technique variations, signs of fatigue, subtle things they may say, etc.  This is the "art" of coaching and is the essential element that over-rides everything else in my opinion.  You can do everything right in terms of the science or what should be right on paper, but without that particular reference that the sophisticated coach brings to the equation, it's doubtful that an athlete wil really reach their true potential.  The devil is in the details,as they say.

You're doing well, Glenn.  Not that you need me to validate that.  Just say I have an appreciation for a job well done.

John