Topic: Worst Jr Worlds for USA Ever?

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Results can be found here: http://polska-sztanga.opalenica.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1697

In terms of total points scored, does anyone know if this was the USA's worst Jr Worlds ever, not taking in to account that we didn't send a full team for some strange reason? Why we are sending full teams to all these other minor international trips and not Jr Worlds is a little perplexing to me, by the way. Would it also/still be the worst Jr Worlds ever compared by percentage of bombouts (2 of 5) to full teams we have sent in the past?

Sorry to be negative, but these are some depressing results. I am not blaming anyone, just wondering what happened, why it happened, what we can do to fix it, if this signifies an increasing decline in our sport in the USA, and many other questions.

Thanks

[Dave Almeida]

An increasing decline? Not overall, no. I recently got started in olympic weightlifting about 7 months ago and I feel that it is slowly on the rise because of websites such as youtube and the like that allow posting of video and embedding. I never even knew what olympic weightlifting was until I saw video of it on your website and then youtube. I know a lot of other people online are starting to take a liking to the sport from watching youtube videos. Even if many of these athletes are powerlifters or strongmen they still are becoming familiar with the sport and maybe their kids will eventually be interested in it.

However, the performance of the kids at the Jr. World's certainly doesnt help matters if kids are looking to get into competitive sports and competing on the world level. To attract these athletes we need some to step up and make a name for the sport again in our country (maybe its helpful Abadjiev is here if they let him train kids?). Once we can garner attention in international meets and reward our athletes for doing so we can attract athletes at a younger age looking for that attention and fame.

It still comes down to our training vs other countries. Russia is always a big player in the Jr. Worlds and they control the training of their best lifters from a very young age (even if it isn't directly, I'd imagine that many of the fathers that lifted when they were younger can teach their sons the Russian methods of training from a very young age). Many lifters at Jr. Worlds are already professional athletes in their respective countries and all they do is train. That certainly is not the case in the United States and until we can replicate their training methods that have proven to be the most successful we won't be able to compete at the highest levels with them.

We have good enough athletes in most of the lighter weight classes it is just that they don't have the structured training programs from a young age that countries like Russia, Turkey and Bulgaria seem to have and they are not pushed enough through their teenage years if they do start young enough. I am interested to see how Moser does in the upcoming 6-10 years with all the preparation he is putting in.

Side Note: I was just over on GoHeavy and I feel sorry that Moser feels he has to answer to some of the idiots on that website criticizing him for choosing to open with 160. He's the one putting in the hours in the gym every day since he was 10 or maybe even less, let him decide how he feels and what he wants to go. Not to mention he's already lifting more weight than almost everyone on that forum has ever lifted. If he keeps working hard and ignoring the critics he will be successful on the international scene in due time. END OF LONGER RANT THAN EXPECTED.

Bottom line is all the whining about football stealing all our athletes doesn't make sense other than in the heavier weight classes. Most of the kids just don't have the exposure to olympic weightlifting because of the lack of clubs/gyms and, previously, the lack of footage of what top level olympic lifters are doing. The key for the future generations is hoping enough powerlifters get bored and try olympic weightlifting now that they are exposed to it and when their kids get old enough they introduce them to it and get them going  :D  .

There is also the social differences between our country and the countries that are ahead of the game in weightlifting but that could take me a few more paragraphs are it's time for me to head home from work.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Dave,

No offense intended, but it might be hard to spot a decline with only 7 months experience in the sport. I get your point about more video being available and we certainly have a lot here, but I am talking about actual results by the USA in competition.

About Moser's 160 bomb, I do think there are some questions that need to be asked. I understand the Mosers have aggressive philosophies and believe this is the way toward the fastest progress, but I am not sure it is appropriate for them to make their own decisions when it is the USAW footing the bill to pay for the trip. In national meets, it is clearly their right. And, regardless, James Moser is a stud who will clearly be a force in the sport for a long time. But, who were the official USA coaches? Was it Jim Moser Sr? Or was the call simply surrendered to him? It doesn't make any sense to me to open with your best ever official snatch at the Jr Worlds and certainly doesn't seem to have worked out well for Team USA. When I won my medal at Jr Worlds, I was told flat out I had no say in my first two attempts in both lifts and I accepted this without question. I was there representing the USA AND they paid the bills. On the other hand, I admit it really probably doesn't matter too much since we sent such a pathetically small team anyway and were therefore not going to get many points or place highly. I still think our overall results at this contest are a debacle.

I'd like to hear what Mr. Moser has to say about it. Perhaps he will respond and enlighten us. And, again, I blame no one. I just think its an important discussion.

[Dave Almeida]

I forgot to mention that part about Moser and them not sending a full team. That might have made him take his lifts into his own hands? However, are we sure that is his best snatch ever in training?

 No offense taken but I spent most of my time before olympic weightlifting reading on other boards. Those boards never mentioned olympic weightlifting much until recently with all the footage available. Now it is a popular topic on some with people posting their own videos asking for critiques.

Chris, heres a question you might be able to answer.. In other countries are all lifters at international competition under control by their respective organizations or are there lifters like Moser who is coached by his father that will represent a certain country without training with their national team? I ask because I always see the same coaches representing their respective country's athletes and these coaches are usually the head of their national teams and I presume would coach the athlete year round and know his or her abilities quite well.

[Shaun Le Conte]

Chris, heres a question you might be able to answer.. In other countries are all lifters at international competition under control by their respective organizations or are there lifters like Moser who is coached by his father that will represent a certain country without training with their national team? I ask because I always see the same coaches representing their respective country's athletes and these coaches are usually the head of their national teams and I presume would coach the athlete year round and know his or her abilities quite well.

I can tell you about how it's done in Canada. For major meets, the athletes are ranked by formula, and the coach of the top male and the coach of the top female athlete by ranking usually are the coaches. There are no national training centers, few if any national training camps. I don't know how attempts are chosen but I believe the athlete and personal coach are consulted. I could ask about that, a fellow club member is competing in the Pam Am Games

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Dave,

It probably wasn't his best snatch in training, but I am pretty sure it was his best in competition and that was at nationals, not long ago, I believe. I, like you, hope and somewhat believe video on the web could help the sport, but I don't think it has in a tangible way yet for the USA, too soon to even have a chance.

I can't say too much about other countries, but I would think most are as strict about coaches picking attempts or more so than the USA usually is. And, I would say its probably nearly unheard of for a USA coach to allow a maximum attempt on an opener in most international meets, especially Jr Worlds, Worlds, and/or Olympics.

[Mike Wittmer]

From what I could see at international championships, the national coaches call the shots.  There is no debate.  However, it also seemd that these coaches, for the most part, were their personal coaches.  At the very least, they were familiar with the lifters.

As for not sending full teams, I have been told by more than one person in a position of power (i.e.: they vote on it) that they did not want to send lifters that would place very low and far behind the winners.  The fear is that they will quit.  

I disagree, not that they will quit, I don't know about that, but I think we should send full teams.  Regarding quitting, I say good, let them quit.  If that is their make up, then it's just as well we find out sooner than later.  I know some lifters who found international competition inspiring and finishing down the list just motivated them to work harder.  Plus, they were smarter for the experience.

As for Jim Moser, James Moser and the others, I expect they will learn from the experience and be better for it down the road.

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Mike,

Nice post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you, if the lifters will quit for facing superior competition, then good riddance. Such quitters will never be good weightlifters anyway. I do not see that as a legitimate reason for not sending a full team to the MOST IMPORTANT JUNIOR MEET IN THE WORLD. Sorry for the caps, I am not "screaming at you" but just making my point, I hope.

My issue is not with the Mosers, who will live and die by the philosophy that brought James to this level and I am sure higher to come. He is one hell of a weightlifter and will no doubt continue to kick ass. However, I believe that has everything to do with their training ethic, intensity, and determination, and not their weight calling savvy. Personally, I think they make a lot of mistakes in that capacity. I don't expect them to change it.

But, how did James Moser Sr get to call the shots? And, such a controversial, almost "insane" shot at that? This was rolling all the dice on one lift. Who were the team coaches to allow this? Did this happen because the Mosers are so vocal that they just decided it wasn't worth the fight to try and restrain them? Or did they decide to let them fail to prove a point? Either way, I see this as a complete disaster. I see James Moser Sr taking full responsibility for this decision. Thats nonsense. Was he the head coach? No. The head coach is the one responsible. Mr. Moser can't take that away from him/her.

This is a really bad sign for our sport in this country in my opinion if a personal coach can make such a decision over the responsibility of the head coach. But, I would like to hear the explanation for this decision. Perhaps there are reasons for this weight choice unknown to a Monday morning quarterback, but it looks very bad.