Topic: Snatch Bar Trajectory

[Danilo Gonzalez]

To jump back or ahead depends on each sportsman, total the important thing is to maintain the corporal balance, by this is better the neutral jump since it does not require efforts extra. If it wants can see this video of the Russian school, the one of better results
 :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXDvM4h7MBs

[Jim Storch]

Fact:  As a bar gets heavier the bar's vertical velocity will get slower relative to the lifters strength/power ability.  This is true for all athletes, it just is different for each individual

I'm not convinced of that "fact".  It is my impression that when the weight gets heavy enough to slow down that's when the lifter misses.  It'd be nice to see some data on max lifts made and missed and bar velocity.

Thought #1:  As the bar gets slower the athlete must pull longer in order to pull the bar high enough to get under it.  (Slower bar velocity must mean longer pull time)

Instead of thinking pull to "maximum height" think pull to "optimum height" and that is regardless of weight.

Would you correct a forward jump?

I'd try.

Would you correct a backwards jump?  Do you want a backwards jump or do you want a neutral jump?

Depends on how big the jump backwards is, if the lifter misses because of it, etc.

If you want a backwards jump, would you try to correct a neutral jump to become a backwards jump?

Generally no, but it depends on the lifter and what is "normal" for the lifter.

[Paul LaDuke]

Fact:  As a bar gets heavier the bar's vertical velocity will get slower relative to the lifters strength/power ability.  This is true for all athletes, it just is different for each individual

I'm not convinced of that "fact".  It is my impression that when the weight gets heavy enough to slow down that's when the lifter misses.  It'd be nice to see some data on max lifts made and missed and bar velocity.


Jim,

Thanks for your insight and correcting my mistake.  I really did oversimplified my vertical bar velocity to weight ratio "fact".  I wrote it like it was a linear relationship with light weight at one end and heavy weight at the other end with a gradual decrease in speed.   This is not the correct way to state that relationship.

You are right in saying when the weight gets heavy enough to slow down thats when the lifter misses.   In rethinking the bar velocity to weight relationship, I would think there is an S curve.  At the lighter weight their would be a much faster bar velocity but it would be limited by the individual's speed.  As the weight gets heavier, that velocity would change very little.  There would be a point along that S curve where the bar velocity would start to slow significantly and high in that sharp decline would be the snatch threshold.  This would be the point at which the lifter could not generate enough bar velocity so that the bar would reach optimal height (around 75% of the lifters total height according to Roman).

[Jim Hooper]

Here's a link to a great little site, Polish, I think, with some technical analysis of bar height, velocity, and acceleration from elite lifters at several world and euro competitions.   Very informative as to the "common denominators" across great lifts (e.g., max bar velocity at max lifter extension, catches at the deadpoint, etc.), as well as the fact that great lifters vary quite a bit individually.  

While there is no doubt that a "rearward" style pull as described in the Stone article produces, in fact, a mechanically efficient vertical bar trajectory for many lifters -- and like J. Edgar Hoover, I have the pictures to prove it --, its not the kind of thing that the laws of physics dictate every lifter should strive for.

In contrast, things like (1) minimizing fore-aft bar deflection, (2) achieving max bar velocity at the instant the lifter reaches max extension, (3) staying in contact with the support through initiation of the pullunder, (4) actively using the bar to speed the squat under, and (5) catching at the deadpoint,  ARE things that the laws of physics make universally desirable, that virtually all great lifters do routinely, and that we should coach.  

http://www.fsport.uniba.sk/vzpier/index.htm