Topic: IWF: MORALLY BANKRUPT AND COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE??

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Thanks. Thats some very interesting reading.

On the Diane Modahl case, I still don't see any evidence of a false positive. She failed both tests and argued a technicality as to why the B sample was not legitimate in her eyes.

I didnt know that stuff about Marion Jones. It does make me wonder that some B samples do not come out like the A but this seems normal and hence the B test is part of the system. I think this was a case where the system either failed to catch her or succeeded in clearing her properly. I do agree that testing results should be released after the B sample is tested.

With Lance, it doesnt look clear that he ever failed a test, just some allegations.

On the supplements, I don't say any supplement that works is illegal, I said they probably are. I personally dont believe that any legal supplement really amounts to a hill of beans over the course of a career. I believe sleeping right, eating right, massage, and even having fun in life are far more important for success in weighlifting. I also think its the wrong train of thought for success to look to magic powders and pills instead of discipline and hard work. I also think there are a lot of expenses in weightlifitng and not a lot of financial reward. So, picking and choosing where you invest your money is paramount and I just dont believe supplements are worth what they cost especially considering the high risk of contamination. I also believe that it is the wrong message to send to kids and, even if slightly beneficial to performance, is not worth the societal cost of continuing to push the quick fix and take a pill society we live in. We need to get back to basics in my opinion and try to at least value sport as pure if even it is not entirely achieved. I think the true beauty of sport is being lost at the hands of a win at all costs mentality.

As to the meat issue, I personally would be very surprised to hear a false positive could be caused by hormones given to the animals, but I concede that it might be possible. I suppose if one lends any credence to the testing system whatsoever, than one would trust that if this was an issue then we would have heard about it from them. But, to be honest, I am starting to loose all faith and trust in the testing system, for different reasons than science.

Thanks again.

[Danny Cox]

> On the Diane Modahl case, I still don't see any evidence of a false positive. She failed both
> tests and argued a technicality as to why the B sample was not legitimate in her eyes.

I don't understand what would constitute a false positive for you!  We're obviously using the term differently because the actual chemical test giving a positive test which was wrong can precisely be described as a false positive.  I would argue that.  I guess you're meaning something else?

> I personally dont believe that any legal supplement really amounts to a hill of beans
> over the course of a career. I believe sleeping right, eating right, massage, and even
> having fun in life are far more important for success in weighlifting. I also think its the
> wrong train of thought for success to look to magic powders and pills instead of
> discipline and hard work.

> We need to get back to basics in my opinion and try to at least value sport as pure
> if even it is not entirely achieved. I think the true beauty of sport is being lost at the
> hands of a win at all costs mentality.

I liked what you wrote about supplements and sport in general here and even more generally to living our lives.  I see this sort of thing commonly in gyms.  I train at lunchtimes in my works gym, and being impressed at how much I squat, for example.  I'm generally rather non-plussed by it, because I consider that my squat (of around 200kg) is nothing more than lots of people could do if they bothered to train hard over a number of years.  I consider a lot of this is about attitude and the level at which raw talent becomes essential is some way ahead of my small achievements.

Your description of the beauty of sport is well expressed. That's what I loved about weightlifting when I was a kid - it was a sport at which I could be succesful when I was not a quick runner, not tall and had no ball sense.  I learned much much later on that actually I was a quick runner over short distances, but generally 20-30m sprints aren't competitive things.

I hope you are correct about meat and food - you may well be.  I haven't been able to find any examples of this being a problem, though the potential does concern me.  At some point I'll email WADA and see what they have to say.

Danny

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

I don't understand what would constitute a false positive for you!  We're obviously using the term differently because the actual chemical test giving a positive test which was wrong can precisely be described as a false positive.

I understand. In truth, I trust the science without fully understanding it. Like those of us who drive a car without knowing how to repair it, or who use air conditioning without knowing how it works, or those who use a computer without knowing how to build it. Madahl failed both tests, so I see no problem. The fact that she won in court does not convince me that the tests were in error- not at all. The fact that B tests have come back in contradiction of A tests does worry me, but not to the point where it cancels my faith, entirely,  in the science. I know the state of our sport from living it for 20+ years, and thats all I can say. I will not say that the system is perfect.

[Danny Cox]

I don't understand what would constitute a false positive for you!  We're obviously using the term differently because the actual chemical test giving a positive test which was wrong can precisely be described as a false positive.

I understand. In truth, I trust the science without fully understanding it. Like those of us who drive a car without knowing how to repair it, or who use air conditioning without knowing how it works, or those who use a computer without knowing how to build it. Madahl failed both tests, so I see no problem. The fact that she won in court does not convince me that the tests were in error- not at all. The fact that B tests have come back in contradiction of A tests does worry me, but not to the point where it cancels my faith, entirely,  in the science. I know the state of our sport from living it for 20+ years, and thats all I can say. I will not say that the system is perfect.

Thanks Chris - that's a good debate and an honest response.  I can't convince you of her innocence - well, let's be right, noone can know for certain other than the person themselves, but I consider it reasonable to accept her story and that the testing setup isn't perfect.  I guess we've talked this to death now!

cheers
Danny

[Chris Ⓐ LeRoux]

Well, although the voting "turnout" is not all that good, I'd say the sentiment of those who did vote speaks volumes.