Topic: Some things I have observed about the sport in my area.

[Pete_Stewart]

Gabriel,

Maybe this coach is a busy man.  I have had coaches in the past who were reluctant to coach athletes who were interested in doing weightlifting to improve their strength for another sport.  The coaches were dedicated to lifters who were training at the sport as their one and only passion.  They had given up their evenings and weekends to train these people, travel and coach at competitions and try to gain funding for the sport.  These coaches also could tell you of so many stories where they had in the past spent time with athletes only to find them walk away a few months later.  Therefore if you have limited free time you tend to prioritise and give the people you know who are dedicated to olympic lifting your time and energy.  In my opinion it may not be best to air your grievances of the coach on a forum as I cannot see this helping your goal of lifting for that particular team and being coached by this person in the future.

[Gabriel Grinstead]

Actually, I didn't post the name for any other reason than to open up another side of the story, just in case they did read this.  I will edit the name out though, since, you make a good point.

Ok, I removed that part, even though my intent was to be as transparent as possible in this situation.

Your post above could be right, but that isn't the case in this situation.  He certainly does coach a lot of people, but I wasn't looking for him to coach me in the first place.  Does that make sense? Basically, I was looking for a place to lift Olympic Style and that seemed like the place to do it. I mean, I would still have to pay my fee, so it wasn't going to be a "free ride" in fact, it would be an expensive ride, considering they are only open for lifters Monday, Wednesday and Saturday.  Which means my american dollar doesn't go that far there.  But, since it was close, conveinent, I figured it would have been a option.  But it is important to note that I was not there looking to join up in the first place. But it always was in the back of my mind... You know?

[JOHN BROZ]

Gabriel--
I lived in MN for 2 yrs.  I trained at a few different gyms during my time there.  There was quite a few lifters lifting back then.  Compared to where I train now in Las Vegas you could call it a meca!  Not saying much for here.  Back to the point... I know who you are talking about.  I will remain pc and not say who.  They are a unique bunch there.  I was living with Antonio Krastev and training 2x day 13 w/o per week.  I was making incredible gains and when he would try to tell/help the other lifters/coaches 99% were very "not open minded" about his advice.  He would ask me all the time "do they know I was a World Champion? Yet they don't listen to things that we(Bulgarian national team) tried in training and found not to work.  Why???"  I had no explanation for this behavior!  I would listen to every word and absorb as much as I could.  Brian Derwin was one of the few there that was open minded.  It is a shame that there are people involved with our sport that have that attitude.  Purists that can't even imagine doing Olifts as supplemental to other strength sports.  Yet the same guys will help teach wrestlers and bball players how to lift to be better athletes.  I don't understand, but sympathize.  Is the gym in lakeville still there?  It was small and had low ceilings but was pretty decent.

[Gabriel Grinstead]

Gabriel--
I lived in MN for 2 yrs.  I trained at a few different gyms during my time there.  There was quite a few lifters lifting back then.  Compared to where I train now in Las Vegas you could call it a meca!  Not saying much for here.  Back to the point... I know who you are talking about.  I will remain pc and not say who.  They are a unique bunch there.  I was living with Antonio Krastev and training 2x day 13 w/o per week.  I was making incredible gains and when he would try to tell/help the other lifters/coaches 99% were very "not open minded" about his advice.  He would ask me all the time "do they know I was a World Champion? Yet they don't listen to things that we(Bulgarian national team) tried in training and found not to work.  Why???"  I had no explanation for this behavior!  I would listen to every word and absorb as much as I could.  Brian Derwin was one of the few there that was open minded.  It is a shame that there are people involved with our sport that have that attitude.  Purists that can't even imagine doing Olifts as supplemental to other strength sports.  Yet the same guys will help teach wrestlers and bball players how to lift to be better athletes.  I don't understand, but sympathize.  Is the gym in lakeville still there?  It was small and had low ceilings but was pretty decent.

John, I appreciate you stopping in to share this with me. I always try and remain fair minded about this and wanted to make sure it wasn't just me who was treated this way, or perhaps something I had done to deserve the treatment of these guys.

But you hit the nail right on the head with your post here... We are probably talking about the same exact guy here... Your right, he would teach and help people in other sports all the time and tell them what to do and what not to do, etc... Yet, the advice was rarely asked to him in the first place, it was just forced.  

But besides all of that, you are right, they were close minded to other approaches.  I would have very much liked to train with a Bulgarian champion.  Those guys are ace! They are the best in the world, in my opinion, if you have the time to follow their difficult routine.

As far as Lakeville gym... Well, I have been off the scene for a long time, so I never really knew where the team lifted for the last 6 years, if it was lakeville or not... But, here, right now, the team trains in a rec center on the east side of Saint Paul. Before that, this specific team trained on the East Side YMCA, which built a special place for them, for a time.

Anyway, thanks again for the post, which at least shows me I am not the only one to find close minded, rude people out here.

[doug mahnke]

gabriel,
  im a member of the twin city barbell club, although i rarely get down there to train these days, preferring to lift on my platform at home.
  im sorry you had a less than positive response from C.J., but you arent the first and you wont be the last.   there are a variety of lifters that train for multiple sports lifting there,  but when it comes to powerlifting etc.  he is not interested.  i suppose its the direction that powerlifting has gone that sits poorly with him, as he certainly isnt apposed to deadlifts or squats.  im sure his opinion on the bench press is due to the tight shoulders many lifters get from over emphasis on the lift, which can make progress in the snatch or jerk difficult.
  i wouldnt call C.J. an elitiest(especially considering how much basketball he watches), but when it comes to weightlifting, which is the only sport hes has ever applied himself to, the buck does stop there.
  C.J. has coached me well over the years, and ive got plenty out of him .
 yes, he can be a weightlifting curmudgeon, but you can get past that.  he really is a great guy who has given all he has to lifters young and old...its all he does!      perhaps you could be a little more persistant, and dont just walk away from a good thing.  focus on oly while your there, or you can also lift at the club during the times he is absent.  they are few but they do exist.  i dont think this is the best idea, as its better to find a way to get along.     i respect your interest in powerlifting and strongman, as i came from a powerlifting background to begin with.  it is difficult to be a jack of all trades.  too much cross-over and you might risk a greater chance of injury.  just one of these disciplines is risk enough at times.
   there arent many places to train oly in the area, so if you truly want to do it get back there.  there is plenty of support within the club.
  as far as weightlifting being a marginal in the twin cities...there is a healthy youth program with a good competitive mix.  the problem is getting them to persue oly lifting after they finish high school.

   what part of the twin cities do you live in?

   a nod to mr. broz, former minnesotan.  i met you briefly at the world master championships in savannah.  its been a while!

[Gabriel Grinstead]

Doug,

I appreciate the kind response.  

I will certainly take this into consideration.

I live in Saint Paul, East Side... So, I am only about 2 miles or less from the training facility.

I certainly do want to train the Olympic Lifts, but I am just not sure at this point.  A few areas that obviously are problems for me are 1) Hours that the facility is open and 2) Potential issues with C.J.

As far as him as a person... The only way you will ever get along with him is if you do not ever dissagree with him.  I have known him for a few years before I feel off the face of the planet and the only way to ever stay in his graces is to always agree with him, even if you really don't.  This applies to any topic... So coming from that view point, I have a hard time swollowing the concept of a 'good hearted' guy.  If you cannot be yourself around someone, who does that say about them? This of course isn't asking for a responce, but a simply means to supply my thinking on the topic.

Anyway, CJ knows what he is doing.  He has an impressive record to back up his coaching.  He taught me the lifts, to which I will always be gratefull to him.  He encouraged me to join a meet and try it out... I did and had a great time.  I wish I would have found Olympic Lifting a LOT earlier, as I might have actually been competitive, but who knows...

Who knows, maybe in a few months I will visit TWC again and pay some money and train for a month, if I am allowed too.  I am not sure who runs it, because I am not sure CJ wants me there, to be honest.

I have to hit 77kg first though... Until then, I am sticking to the gym I am at.

Thanks again,

Gabriel

[duane hansen]

Gabriel,
Charlie is the biggest personality in the gym, but he does not run the show.  
The thing to remember is his bark is worse than his bite.  He does have a "my way or the highway" attitude, but he cannot get you thrown out of the gym.  The worst thing you can do is butt heads with him.  If your personality clashes with his (and most people's do,) get your coaching from someone else.  Roger is a good choice; a man of few words, but they are good ones.  When it comes to weightlifting in Minnesota, Roger is the man.  Most of the older guys who train down there are very knowledgable and always happy to help out.

The very first day I went to the East Side Y, Charlie was giving me grief.  I eventually discovered that what worked for me was to listen to what he had to say, then do what I was going to do.  We get along fine as long as we are moving parallel to each other: he does his thing and I do mine, but we respect what the other is doing.  Doug is right that Charlie has given a lot to the sport and the lifters.  I will be the first to admit that he is abrasive and occasionally abusive.  We did not always get along and I spent a couple years at one point on the receiving end of a lot of his crap.  I also think that the club and the sport will be a much emptier place when he is no longer around.

My best advice would be to keep going to the club.  Find someone else to coach you and find a way to get along.  It will be worth it in the long run.  Just to clear up one last point, the room that the club lifted in at the East Side Y was not built for the weighlifting club.  It was actually the room where they had the pinspotters for the bowling alley, back before they moved all of the weights in.  Stuff like that is the true Lost History of weightlifting.

[Gabriel Grinstead]

Thanks for information Duane.  I'll keep TWC in mind here after my cut is finished.